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Joined: Sep 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
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Check your facts, Iss, and in particular the dates. When did the bomb explode in the Schroeder's house? When did Bill Ayers end his active participation in the radical left? When did Bill Ayers EVER participate in any action that intended to or actually did cause injury, much less death, to any human being? I am aware of no bomb exploding in Patrolman Schroeder's home, loganrbt. He was murdered when responding to the Brighton Bank robbery. Patrolman Schroeder . Note that I said Ayers was a leader of the organization that used bombing and murder as tactics to overthrow the US government. However, when one places and detonates bombs in buildings, one is not concerned with the possibility of murdering a passer-by as it goes off. Also keep in mind that three members of his organization, one being his girl friend, managed to kill themselves while constructing a nail-filled bomb. The purpose of a nail-filled bomb is anti-personnel. It worked.:-)) [/quote] He may be a hero to some, and engaging in bombings may seem wonderfully revolutionary, loganrbt, but it does not relieve him of his past. Why are so many so eager to cover up for him?;-) Yours in disappointment, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Feb 2008
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
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One should be held accountable FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS. Not every sin you can imagine. One need not adopt him as a hero to remind you of the lack of linkage between the crime about which you bray and the person you wish to associate with the crime, despite the lack of ANY credible evidence that he was involved.
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
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Indeed, Logan. While underground, he and fellow member Bernardine Dohrn married, and the two remained fugitives together, changing identities, jobs and locations.
In 1973, the federal government requested the dismissal of the charges against the couple in the interest of national security following accusations of government misconduct,"[16] but state charges against Dohrn remained. Dohrn was still reluctant to turn herself in to authorities. "He was sweet and patient, as he always is, to let me come to my senses on my own", she later said of Ayers.[3] She turned herself in to authorities in 1980. Schroeder was an officer in Boston killed during a robbery attempt by other anti-war activists/thugs with no relation to the Weather Underground. Katherine Ann Power - Wikipedia But I guess if you are going to paint with a broad brush, you might as well use a big one. Katherine powers was reported to attend SDS rallies. Ayers was part a group that took control of the SDS. Ayers was one of those who advocated militancy and violence. Former weather underground members took part in the Brinks Car holdup in which 3 other men were murdered. Are you suggesting that one ceases to be accountable for what one started simply by going into hiding? He is as morally responsible for the Brinks killings as if he were there himself. The Brinks robbery of 1981 (October 20, 1981) was an armed robbery carried out by Black Liberation Army members Jeral Wayne Williams (aka Mutulu Shakur), Donald Weems (aka Kuwasi Balagoon), Samuel Smith, Nathaniel Burns (aka Sekou Odinga), Cecilio "Chui" Ferguson, Samuel Brown (aka Solomon Bouines), and several former members of the Weather Underground, now belonging to the May 19 Communist Organization (David Gilbert, Samuel Brown, Judith Alice Clark, Kathy Boudin, and Marilyn Buck), and an unknown number of accomplices.[1] They stole $1.6 million from a Brinks armored car at the Nanuet Mall, in Nanuet, New York, killing two police officers, Edward O'Grady and Waverly Brown, and a Brinks guard, Peter Paige. Again, what are a few dead working stiffs compared to a professor's life and work? The only broad brush I see in this thread is an attempt to whitewash this fellow -- I guess for political and ideological reasons. Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581 |
One should be held accountable FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS. Not every sin you can imagine. One need not adopt him as a hero to remind you of the lack of linkage between the crime about which you bray and the person you wish to associate with the crime, despite the lack of ANY credible evidence that he was involved. Please loganrbt, I do not "bray". Donkies do that -- regardless of which end it eminates. And yes, I am holding him accountable for his own actions as a violence advocating leader of the organization. You are sounding quite like the Bushies I have had to listen to as they defended their guy for lack of any "credible evidence" that he decieved us into an un-necessary invasion of Iraq.:-) Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Jul 2004
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
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So by that token, everyone in a position of leadership in the US government is morally reposnsible for say, the bombing of a wedding party in aghanistan. you wouldnt be suggesting some sort of collective reponsibility would you? Strange stance for an individualist such as yourself to take. Taken I guess for political and ideological reasons.
Oh please bear in mind that I dont condone or defend political violence, quite the opposite. but i am willing to accept that people can change their views over time, and indeed become valuable members of society in later years.
Martin McGuinness for instance, a far bigger bastard than any weatherman, the military leader of a far more hienous group of political murderers then those penny ante militants, is now Deputy First Minister of Norther Ireland.
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581 |
So the whole thing was a lie? Schroeder was killed by SDS/Black Panther sympathizers, not the Weather Underground with which Ayers was affiliated. "Affiliated"? He was a leader of the Weatherman which took control of the SDS, which had close ties with the Black Panthers. In June 1969, the Weatherman took control of the SDS at its national convention, where Ayers was elected Education Secretary.[7] Later in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to riot police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket Riot confrontation between labor supporters and the police.[11] The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway.[12] (The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.[13][12] Rebuilding it yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast.[12]) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the "War Council" meeting in Flint, Michigan. Larry Grathwohl, an FBI informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, stated that "Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, probably had the most authority within the Weatherman".[14]
...snip...
Ayers and Dohrn later became legal guardians to the son of former Weathermen David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin after the boy's parents were convicted and sent to prison for their part in the Brinks Robbery of 1981 . Not my kind of hero, and I wonder why he is being brought back up now by his supporters. Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Jul 2004
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
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Not my kind of hero, and I wonder why he is being brought back up now by his supporters.
Yours,
Issodhos Governer Palin is an Ayers supporter?
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,740 Likes: 1
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,740 Likes: 1 |
ok quick spot check, is there anyone here to whom Ayers is as is oft stated by Isshodos, a "Hero"?
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)
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Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
I have seen nothing that indicates that the Weather Underground was at all involved (See Below). There were many anti-Vietnam organizations in existence at the time. List of Weatherman members: * Bill Ayers * Kit Bakke * Kathy Boudin * Judith Clark * Bernardine Dohrn * Dianne Donghi * Linda Sue Evans * Brian Flanagan * Ralph Ford * David Gilbert * Ted Gold * John Jacobs * Naomi Jaffe * Jeff Jones (activist) * Sam Karp * Joe Kelly (radical) * Howard Machtinger * Sam Melville * Mark D. Naison * Russ Neufeld * Diana Oughton * Mark Perry * Eleanor Raskin * Terry Robbins * Robert Roth * Mark Rudd * Daniel Shakespeare * Robert "Robby" Stern * Susan Stern * Bob Tomashevsky * Laura Whitehorn * Cathy Wilkerson WikipediaThe Robbers responsible for the death of officer Schroeder: Robert Valeri, an ex-convict Susan Saxe, a graduate of Brandeis University, near Boston Stanley Bond and William Gilday Jr., both ex-convicts Katherine Power, a student activist at Brandeis. The Radical Bank Job - TIME (October 5, 1970)
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Jul 2004
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veteran
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veteran
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so what relationship did the bank robbers have to the weathermen then?
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)
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