Capitol Hill Blue Forums We shall overcome

I love it!

I hate to rain on the parade but it is still not equality if they are called different things. In some ways, I wish I cared about the word marriage that is so staunchly defended, from a 'gettin'-ready-to-walk-down-the-aisle' standpoint. But, the fact remains that, if there are two different NAMES, they are not the same thing, it all boils down to "separate but equal". Go tell African Americans that "Jumping The Broom" is equality...

I would be okay if ALL marriages in our society were to be called "civil unions" and marriage was limited to the religious who so love the word. But, if you aren't calling it all the same thing, it ain't equal.

It is encouraging, but it would still be a different thing, wouldn't it? The government would still have to come up with new forms and stuff, right?

I suppose I should be happy and grateful for what I can get from my fellow citizens and humans from the Country of my birth, but, for some reason, I'm just not.

Jeffro: I agree entirely.

Thanks Julia! I just don't understand why "close" should be "good enough".

I meant to post (on the other thread) that you are welcome to come and watch movies at my place any time you are in SF.

In other news: I'm going out tonight to finish celebrating the Anniversary of the end of prohibition - I'm like a fish out of water in the bars alone these days - so wish me luck!

Jeff

Friend speaks my mind.

me too

New York Times Op-ed

Me too

If one looks at all the loaded rhetoric around marriage... sacrament, scared, sanctity etc... the definitions of these words are all rooted in religious concepts. Once government involvement moves beyond a legal civil union agreement, the government becomes inextricably involved in enforcing religious beliefs.

If marriage is a sacred sacrament whose sanctity must be protected... that should happen within a religious, not a civil context. IMO the government is constitutionally prohibited from enforcing anyone's concept of the sanctity of marriage.

Sure it would be a different thing, but I'm just looking at the numbers reported in the poll: We have much more than a majority of people supporting equal rights on every single point...except the use of the term "marriage". I know it's silly, but the silly have made it their sacred cow. We already have same-sex civil unions in several states, and chasms have not opened up and swallowed the citizens, no massive homosexual team recruitment drives in their public schools, etc. So the use of the term "marriage" is really all the opponents have left, in those states.

But wait: Even in those states with civil unions, they really are NOT at all equal because of all the federal rules impacted by the lack of recognition of same-sex civil unions. For example, all the rules about income tax and social security.

So the poll numbers clearly show a path toward equality, and a very significant gain: All we can get right now may be seperate-but-equal, but there is enough support to make the two as equal as possible. Once we have same-sex civil unions in every state (and recognized as equivalent for all legal purposes by the federal government) for a decade or so, then the opponent's arguments just look sillier and sillier.

We shall overcome... but it won't happen tomorrow, even if the California Supreme Court invalidates Prop "Hate". It will be an uphill battle in most states, where ignorance and fear of "the other" are still more powerful than reason and acceptance of each person's right to live their own life their own way. But it's a fight worth fighting.

The fight over the use of the term "marriage" is the single battle the opponents want us to fight: Because it's the only battle they can win right now. (It is one of those powerful iconic words that invoke all sorts of deep emotions in a majority of American people when they hear it. You can't change that with a logical argument.) We can win every other battle, right now! So let's do it.

I agree, but I cannot imagine that the Gay community will willingly sacrifice it's rights just so that all of the other battles can be won.