Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Finance, the economy & Economics Bailing out the auto industry - yes or no?

I was attempting to say that if the UAW buys GM, GM will turn into another Studebaker Corporation.

PS: I did very much LIKE the Studebaker cars and disagree with the old "coming or going" proverbs. I owned a 56 Power Hawk, and never in my life have I seen such attention to quality.

But management drove the company into the ground, which is what I suspect might happen if the UAW bosses try to run GM.
It's bad enough with the management they have now but I bet it would be worse with UAW up there.

I can't remember if Saturn four cylinders have mechanical valve lifters or not, but I happen to like the sound of solid mechanical lifters.
But I'm a gearhead.

When we lived in Seattle (Green Lake, early 80’s ) there was a guy in the neighborhood who owned scores of Studebakers. He had no where to park them so they were parked on the streets all around the neighborhood. One day I counted nine in the vicinity, and most were in very good shape. Through the years I’ve wondered what became of those cars.

Personal experience. About 3 and a half years ago I bought a new car and I was looking at a few options one of them being Saturn. When I got to the dealership and got into the car I felt like I was in a car build in 1970. The dashboard looked very cheap and the seats even worse. I drove the car and I thought the engine was going to fall out when I revved it up to 6000 rpms. The sales person told me not to accelerate that much again.

Granted, this was a showroom model thus was used and abused a lot, but the trunk and the gas tank releas levers were broken and the passanger seat could no longer be adjusted. If you can't even maintain the showroom cars, how are you going to maintain the car to the daily abuse I put it though

Now I got myself a VW GTI (manual) and I've been very happy with the quality as well as the performance of the car.

kap17 - don't know if this applies, but mine was a '97 and Phil is talking about a '99.

In the '90s, Saturn ran a lot of their own show, and they did well. Happy customers - so happy some of them formed a club (no, I'm not quite that geeky.)

However, between then and now, GM (which owned Saturn but had a loose relationship with hit) moved it and started running it like ...well, like GM. Hence the POS you test-drove.

Again - this is pure opinion, I can't pull any numbers to support what I'm saying.

History
Longer article

The second seems to indicate it was production problems around the turn of the century that really caused Saturn's slippage - whether GM was a cause or a result is probably hard to tell.

People who drove early Saturns are likely to blame GM, though, as they were so pleased with those early Saturn days.

Does this have anything to do with the topic? I'm not sure...

It's a turn in the topic, Mellow Julia, toward the question of "what strings should be attached to a bailout?". I think there are two strands of thought that are worth highlighting. One is that it isn't enough to make a good product. The other is that bad management can screw up anything.

How is it, I wonder, that Honda and Toyota, to name two, can find such good managers who are willing to work for so much less money than the bad managers who infest GM?

Oh, did I mention that I own a 98 Saturn? Wagon. 185,000 miles. One of the electric windows doesn't work. Otherwise, nearly perfect in every way.

Okay, so...I'm hearing a qualified "yes" to the bailout, given certain goals, all of which are to be identified in the first year, with specific goals to be met over x period of time

1) Immediate review of compensation at all levels, including bonus and salary freezes for all top management positions and removal of "silly perks" (aka PR nightmares).
2) Measurable goals for improved mileage
3) Review of studies (you know they've got 'em) regarding quality control issues
4) Revision of marketing to address "new owners" (taxpayers)
5) Increased R&D efforts for non-petroleum fuels.

What else (besides the possibility of this ever happening?)

The present dyes are mostly foreign made. I think that all retooling should be made in this country as well as the new products.

okay, okay, I know that Mellowicious is trying to steer us back to the topic at hand. However, I love my Saturn - 99 SL1. It's still going strong, has only had a few repairs, and, most importantly, is completely paid off. Oh, and it still manages better than 30 mpg, which maybe isn't up to the "hybrid" standards, but was about where most comparable cars were at the time.

Anyway, on topic, I do think it is a qualified yes, even more so now that there is more talk of even more money going to banks. Looks like the government wants to double that $700 billion, for a $1.4 trillion total. Compared to that, the measly $30 billion the auto industry is asking for is pocket change.

Erinys you're doing better than my 2000 Kia Sportage, which only
manages about 30 on the freeway at 60 MPH when totally empty,
and it is NEVER empty for the most part.
I'm usually lugging around a very heavy pro lighting kit,
a high definition camera, and a lot of computer equipment and cables.
So my usual is around 27 mpg, unless there's a good tailwind.