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if you will cast your minds back to those comments made by some on the cause of the crisis being that the govt forced banks to lend to low income, more risky people......

Associated Press

Quote
WASHINGTON – The Bush administration backed off proposed crackdowns on no-money-down, interest-only mortgages years before the economy collapsed, buckling to pressure from some of the same banks that have now failed. It ignored remarkably prescient warnings that foretold the financial meltdown, according to an Associated Press review of regulatory documents.

"Expect fallout, expect foreclosures, expect horror stories," California mortgage lender Paris Welch wrote to U.S. regulators in January 2006, about one year before the housing implosion cost her a job.

Bowing to aggressive lobbying — along with assurances from banks that the troubled mortgages were OK — regulators delayed action for nearly one year. By the time new rules were released late in 2006, the toughest of the proposed provisions were gone and the meltdown was under way

looks like the banks didnt mind being forced at all.


"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
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Shlack the way I heard it was that the Democrats forced Fannie and Freddie to loan money to the high risk borrowers and are thus responsible for the meltdown.


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That is the Republican Way - blame the Democrats for a misdemeanor, make out like it is a serious crime, commit a felony while everyone is looking the other way, then make off with the loot. Works every time. My brother still swallows this stuff being pedaled by Rush Limbaugh and others. Even though it has been debunked eight ways to Sunday.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted by Greger
Shlack the way I heard it was that the Democrats forced Fannie and Freddie to loan money to the high risk borrowers and are thus responsible for the meltdown.

It is true that Fanny, Freddie, and the democcrats were all culpable to some degree.

It is also true that none of the "toxic" morgages we hear about involved fannie and freddie... they carry their own paper... and since these mortgages are backed by the governmnet, they are by definition not toxic.

Last edited by Ardy; 12/02/08 07:36 AM.

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The CRA argument is three quarters of it's own label - cra*. There is nothing there for the argument to hang on, it is distraction pure and simple, and deceptive to boot. First, the CRA was passed in... 1977 and essentially ended when George Bush took office. So this "bubble" had to have lingered for an incredibly long time. Second, the percentage of bad loans under the CRA is lower than the rate in the subprime market by nearly 100% (indeed, 87% of the subprime loans are still being paid, and over 92% of the F&F loans are solvent). Finally, it is obvious to any rational observer that the timing and impact of the housing bubble are much more aligned with the deregulation than regulation pattern. Indeed, as Obama's advisor Austan Goolsbee notes:
Quote
The traditional causes of foreclosure, even before there was subprime lending, were job loss, divorce and major medical expenses. And the national foreclosure data seem to suggest that these issues remain paramount. The latest numbers show that foreclosures have been concentrated not in places where real estate bubbles have supposedly been popping, but rather in places whose economies have stagnated — the hurricane-torn communities on the Gulf of Mexico and the industrial Midwest states like Ohio, Michigan and Indiana, where the domestic auto industry has suffered.
Did the government cause the bubble? Not according to Austan Goolsbee - Examiner.com


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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'Horrendous' US job losses

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Nigel Gault, chief US economist at Global Insight, described the unemployment numbers as "horrendous".

"This is an economy that is in absolute free fall right now," Mr Gault said: "Confidence has collapsed."

More than 1.5 million Americans have been made redundant in the past six months.

Following the steeper-than-expected decline and a $1.43 fall in the price of oil to $42.24 a barrel, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 224 points or 2.6 per cent, to 8,153.... [yo-yoing, unstable Dow-Jones Index]

The US car industry is also expected to lay off thousands of workers, taking the unemployment rate to an estimated 8 per cent by the end of the year....

Ian Shepherdson, chief US economist at High Frequency Economics, said: "This is almost indescribably terrible. In the past six montsh, the US has lost 1.55 million jobs, almost as many as were lost in the whole 2001 recession, which included 9/11 and the two months after. The pace of job losses is accelerating alarmingly."


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I am still wondering if anyone is willing to make a hard and fast prediction that the economy will collapse into a quivering mass of protoplasm--- along with a general time frame for this to happen.

As I recall, at least one intrepid poster was willing to predict that the bail out would not work and would be seen to fall apart around the first of the year.

Any predictions?


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As a business owner my prediction has been for the economy to bottom out right about now and after Obamas inauguration to begin a slow upturn. By the end of the first quarter and halfway through April(tax time)we should start seeing an upswing towards whatever the new normal is going to be.
If that doesn't happen and If commerce continues to dive bomb after that and into the second and third quarters of next year then it's Katie Bar the Door and possibly a full on depression.





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Originally Posted by Greger
As a business owner my prediction has been for the economy to bottom out right about now and after Obamas inauguration to begin a slow upturn. By the end of the first quarter and halfway through April(tax time)we should start seeing an upswing towards whatever the new normal is going to be.

Sounds about right to me. I am not sure how much of an up turn we will see, my guess is that the new "normal" will be somewhat lethargic.... there are not a lot of new young consumers coming along to replace the aging boomers... and there will be less artificial pumping up of the economy... etc.


"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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