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I think this idea is misguided.

The point you have missed is the reality of actually being in power. The MAGA base has extorted politicians into holding the line regardless of what they believe or know. Trump is their voice ergo they must bend the knee in order to maintain their power. Selling their soul for a few bucks is nothing compared to having power.

They have the power and they will use it to destroy the federal government and by extension Democracy.

I see floating a few billion dollars (why not, open corruption is now legal!) to a few strategically selected Republicans, regular conservative guys, in the House and Senate to convince them to switch parties, at least temporarily, in order to wipe out the MAGA majorities in Congress.

How many does it take for each chamber? @Perotista, you probably know those figures.

I wonder if Adam and Liz might be in favor of a plan like that.

You guys are far too optimistic.

Sen Rubio is the only nominee who can even be remotely considered as qualified for the job.

Huckabee will only exacerbate the ME situation ... perhaps even encouraging Netanyahu to expand the attacks.
Rep Stefanic will side with the Russians and perhaps the Chinese against NATO allies and SEATO allies.
Fox "News" host Hegseth will absolutely dismantle the military and turn it on Americans
Rep Gabbard will promote Russian propaganda against US citizens and NATO allies in Trump's quest to sell America to the highest bidder.
Kennedy will cripple government efforts to keep America safe from disease ... the enemy within ... within the next administration.
OZ will sell out Medicare and Medicaid to MAGA billionaires for their personal profit at the expense of one of America's safety nets.
Rep Gaetz will gut DoJ of anyone who actually believes in the rule of law

What is the motif? Complete deconstruction of the federal government and the sacred Constitutional mandate to provide security and services for it's citizenry. Two years???? Really. The federal government will be completely crippled within 2 years and MAGA will be ecstatic. The courts will be filled with political MAGA hacks ... and you think an election in 2 years will roll that back? Does anyone think the SC would issue an opinion running contrary to the Trump agenda? If they came to their Constitutional senses and struck down any agenda item, who would enforce the ruling?

Someone may argue some of these folks will not get through the Senate. Well it doesn't matter. They are just cutouts ... easily replaced by someone with the same extreme agenda who will be confirmed or be acting or recess appointed. It has begun. The Constitution is being destroyed and I see little that can return it to it's former state. Some may argue there will be an election in 2 years .... what makes anyone believe there will be one? It couldn't happen in America? Really!!!! We have a sexual predator, convicted felon, and insurrectionist elected as president. It has already happened.

Trump may proclaim he is president for life and who will stop him? There is no one who can stop him from issuing such a fiat.

I see a dystopian future as a 3rd world country ... easy prey to the strong man countries willing to take advantage.

And that is one scary thought.

As far as I can tell there is one thing that just may turn EVERYTHING upside down. I suspect we will have an election in 2 years, and the Democrats might even get control of the house. The problem is what happens in the next 4 year election. Given what Mr. Trump has said, and he gets his way, there will be NO 4th year election! My own suspicion is that is where we will learn what we have to look forward to - or maybe not............

Oh, one more thought. Mr. Trump seems to be going a bit downhill. He just might die of old age. Should that happen we will have to deal with his Vice President. Now THERE is something to consider!

Going by voting patterns over the last 3 elections, I think you’re right to a certain extent that Americans don’t know what they want, jgw. Republicans want republicans elected; democrats want democrats elected which covers around 60% of the electorate. Who those candidates are, doesn’t matter. As for the rest, it seems they know what they don’t want, which seems to be the party in power.

2016 Trump defeats Clinton republicans retain control of congress
2018 democrats win back the house and senate
2020 Biden defeats Trump democrats retain control of congress
2022 republicans regain control of the house
2024 Trump defeats Harris, republicans retain control of the house, regain control of the senate.

There’s a pattern there. The candidate representing the previous president, loses. The out of power party, the party not of the of the president loses the midterms. Why? Most Americans viewed the sitting president as doing a bad job, the sitting president had over 50% of all Americans disapproving of the job he had done. 2018 54% disapproved of Trump’s job performance, 2020 54% disapproved of Trump’s job performance, 2022 55% disapproved of Biden’s job performance, 2024 56% disapproved of Biden’s job performance. Hence, the party that doesn’t hold the presidency, the out of power party either has made gains in taking back the house or both chambers of congress in the midterms and unseated the party of the president in the presidential election.

Independents, the final 40%. They voted for Trump in 2016 by 4 points, overwhelmingly for democratic candidates by 9 points in the 2018 midterms. Voted for Biden by 13 points in 2020 and republican in the midterms of 2022 by 3 points. The final numbers aren’t in for 2024, they’re pending.

I agree, folks don’t know what they want. But do know what they don’t want and that is the party in power. They’ll vote out the party in power to be replaced by the other party, then vote the other party out to be replaced by the party they voted out in the previous election. This continues, I expect the democrats to retake back the house in 2026 and return to the presidency in 2028 along with taking control of both chambers of congress. The pattern has been set. At least in the last 3 elections which as far as the midterms are concerned goes back to Obama and 2010 or Bush in 2006 or Bill Clinton in 1994.

As for Harris’s loss, the democrats need to ask and address why their voters didn’t turnout. The democrats had a 3-point advantage in party affiliation, party identification over the republicans. But the republicans held a 4-point advantage among those voters who actually turned out. The democratic base was a bit larger, but less in it came to those who voted. Republican held the advantage 35-31 over the democrats among actual voters. But the republicans has always been able to get their base out, the democrats, not so much.

America will get what it deserves in the next four years. It was warned.

As far as I can tell NOBODY has the slightest idea of what America wants. I have been watching the TV, and listening to voters, etc. and THEY have no idea what they want. All they knew was pretty simple. One side was for huge change and the other was for kindofa fairie tale change. The voted for the huge change. Now we will go through another Trump time. The difference is that, this time, they are ready to take charge and I, for one, wonder if I will ever even have the chance to have another vote. Its gonna be VERY interesting! Take those who voted trump because the democrats supported the evil Jewish state. Now they are find that they voted for a group that are now saying, and agreeing with Netanyaho, that EVERYTHING belongs to the Jewish state! Interesting stuff to be sure.

I nothing else, the next 4 years is going to be seriously educational. I guess we all deserve it? I guess my real question is whether we all survive.

Forgot - My thoughts on the Democratic party and my constant whining about them were not that far off. It will be interesting to see if they change even a little bit. I should also probably mention that my questionable faith in the wisdom of the American Voters has not let me down.

“What happened” is far too many voters thought an emotionally damaged, silver-spooned, sociopathic male game show host with 34 felony convictions, and a fondness for fascism, ought to run and make decisions for our country. And that, a seasoned career government official with judicial and legislative experience and a middle class upbringing should not – especially given she’s a woman.

Pretty simple really: America does not want a woman POTUS.

Where things stand as of tonight. Senate Rep 52, Dem 47. Pennsylvania hasn’t been called. McCormick leads Casey by 30,000 votes with 99% of the votes counted. But it’s close enough to go to a recount. It’ll be some time before Pennsylvania becomes official.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/r...flipped=false&filter-remaining=false

The house will probably take longer, the republicans have a 216-207 lead with 10 races yet to be called or determined. Those uncalled races are split 5-5 as to who holds the seats now. The republicans have flipped 7 previously held democratic seats, the democrats have flipped 5 Republican held seats.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/r...flipped=false&filter-remaining=false

The links I provided are usually updated twice daily in case anyone wants to closely follow or obtain the most recent results. Here’s something weird. In the 5 swing states that had both a presidential and senate race, the democrat won 4 of those 5 states with Pennsylvania being the 5th, too close to call.

Michigan Democrat Slotkin won the senate seat by 20,000 votes, Harris lost Michigan by 40,000 votes
Wisconsin Democrat Baldwin won the senate seat by 27,000 votes, Harris lost Wisconsin by 30,000 votes
Nevada Democrat Rosen won the senate seat by 22,000 votes, Harris lost Nevada by 47,000 votes
Arizona Democrat Gallego won the senate seat by 73,000 votes, Harris lost Arizona by 185,000 votes
Pennsylvania – See senate above. Harris lost Pennsylvania by 134,000 votes

A whole lot of ticket splitting took place in these 5 swing states. Voting republican for president, voting democratic down ballot. Which is highly unusual as normally the senate seat goes the same as the presidential. Having one or two is understandable. But four and possibly all 5 depending on Pennsylvania. I can’t remember the last time that happened if it ever did.

Dunno about midterms. ‘Events, dear boy, events.
Yeah, I was referring to the judicial as a decade or longer. Republicans will have the candidates for nominating ready to go and you can bet they’ll be young and ideological.

My suspicions get raised when someone uses ‘we’…

It will be interesting to watch how T bone governs this time. If I was laying a bet, I think he’ll do a fair amount of heavy betrayal with his new found working class base while crowing about his achievements for them. Not unlike the Democrats.
For all the petty bougouise base he’s enjoyed since 2016, I see more goods getting delivered. For the plutocrats, his real base and people, much more in the forms of tax breaks, contracts and deregulation.

So business as usual for the most part, with some rice bowls getting cracked while others get filled, towards the top of the class ladder.

I hope you are right. Time will tell, but I certainly will not be holding my breath! If Trump is able to do what he has promised, we will have nothing more to worry about because he will solve all of our problems - we won't even have to vote any more because he will have taken care of that for us!

Trump will have the ability to replace Roberts, Alito and Thomas, all 70 or above if they retire. Maybe even Sotomayor who is also 70 and if reports are correct, in poor health. Although the republicans have more senate seats up for reelection in 2016, 20, vs. 13 for the democrats, I see only 2 seats where the Democrats stand a good chance of switching. Even if they do, that still will leave the republicans in control. Meaning Trump will have 4 years to replace any of the above SCOTUS justices. I do however expect the democrats to regain control of the House in the 2026 midterms, perhaps by very large numbers, blue wave numbers as Americans quickly tire of Trump like they did in his first term as president. They’ll remember why they ousted him back in 2020.

A wipeout, yes, for the time being. But I expect as I stated above a democratic rebound beginning in 2026 and ending up with the presidency again in 2028. There’s nothing anyone can do about the SCOTUS. I was adamantly opposed to then Ex-Democratic major leader, Senator Harry Reid’s precedence setting first use of the nuclear option setting a simple majority for presidential nominees’ approval/confirmation. It brought the democrats a very short-term victory, but a huge defeat as the future from that time to today as it played out, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett are the results of Reid’s actions. Replacements for the 3 SCOTUS justices I mentioned above and possibly a 4th is on the horizon. A decade? Probably more like 2 or 3 decades.

We’ll cope and survive.

Agreed, no one knows how Trump will govern. Cept personal is policy. Should come into focus as appointments get announced.

Events and trends with material conditions for context. Numbers are fine for looking back. Not so much looking forward. Let’s leave a little room for artistry that defies the quants.

Dems lost all three branches of government. Quite a hat trick. One of those branches for the next decade or longer. Looks like a wipeout to me but your free to draw a different conclusion.

The neoliberal culture is also coming under heavy shelling. We’ll see this one play out in the months ahead. Dem Corp has become more authoritarian with their heavy censoring, substituting politics with lawfare, jumping in bed with the spooks and Neocons, illiberal primaries.

Nice to see them crash and burn.

The delay of this will only make the damage greater. The reset should have happened with the election of the pretender Obama, IMO.

The only thing I would add is the popular vote is close. That only the electoral college makes this election look like a route. Only 2.3 points separate Harris from Trump. There’s been only 5 other presidential elections where the vote total was closer, only 2 since 1900. 1960 with Nixon and JFK, JFK 49.72%, Nixon 49.55% of the vote when JFK won the popular vote by a mere 120,000. Then again in 2000, Gore vs. G.W. Bush. 48.4% to 47.9%, Gore winning the popular vote by 544,000. JFK ran away with the electoral college, Bush squeaked by.

I don’t know what the Trump administration will do or how they’ll govern. There’s a lot of perceived ideas out there about that, but most of those perceived ideas won’t come about. However Trump and company govern, I predict it will be unpopular. His job approval will be in the pits. That the democrats will make a solid comeback in the 2026 midterms, possiblity a blue wave and reclaim the White House in 2028.

Perotista,
I understand changing demographics and political alignments. Don’t need a spreadsheet for that.
Voters are not states and don’t fit neatly into spreadsheets. Yes, I agree it was many reasons for this electoral wipeout of the current manifestation of the Democratic corporation. Math calculations to prove who’s to blame won’t cut it. This wasn’t close.

I expect more haughty pouting and hack blaming. That’s SOP from this coalition. Funny to read them though.

What’s interesting is the realignment of the Republican corporation. Who and why. You can look at numbers all day or simply drive around. Material conditions matter. Always have. Narrative control not so much when times get tough. Though it’s satisfying to see one B.S. train get derailed, I don’t look forward to the evening bigger one that’s just pulled into the station.

Only bright spot is T-bone looks less bloodthirsty for war as Dem Corp. probably continue the Dem’s genocide of Gaza though. Maybe even get us tangled up with Iran. Keeping Dem darlings Pompeo, Bolton Haley and the rest of the Neocons at arm’s length may help some to resist the bi-partisan slaughtering. Not hopeful though.

This will have cultural implications to boot for decades to come. Crazy oligarchs with their libertarian beliefs (they can afford them) allied with a right wing populist movement. The left wing populist option was denied. Twice. Should be interesting to see how much neoliberal culture gets rooted up and replaced with what from this new coalition. Who knows.. maybe a simple culturally conservative, economically liberal one? One things for sure, culture wars will resume at full tempo. Gotta keep the dirty and horseless fighting over something besides universal material benefits. Amiright?

By the way, 45-60 yr. old block was the strongest supporting age cohort of Trump. I don’t know what that means. Maybe they’re super racist?

Chunk, there’s probably a million and one reasons for this defeat, not one single reason, but a combination of many. Yes, there’s been a reversal for the blue collar, working class, which was once a democratic party bastion, while the college educated were republicans. The reversals started in 2008 and it seems was completed this year. Trump actually won the union vote in Wisconsin while narrowly losing it in Michigan and Pennsylvania and on and on. The trend is for the old rust belt Midwest trending red republican while the south with a couple of exceptions is trending blue, democratic. There is a realignment taking place. Slowly but surely.

There has been movement from 2000-2024 for the states from red to blue or blue to red. Below is the movement based on PVI, Partisan Voting Index along with their number of electoral votes for the 2024 presidential election. I only included swing states, no solid red or blue states.

Arizona from an R+6 down to an R+2. Moving blue. 11 electoral votes
Florida from R+1 to a R+3 getting slightly redder. 30 electoral votes
Georgia from a R+10 down to an R+2 Moving blue 16 electoral votes
Michigan from a D+6 to a R+1 Moving Red 15 electoral votes
Minnesota from a D+10 down to a D+2 moving Red 10 electoral votes
Nevada from D+3 to R+1 Moving Red 6 electoral votes
North Carolina from an R+9 down to a R+3 moving blue 16 electoral votes
Ohio From an R+4 up to an R+6 Becoming more red 17 electoral votes
Pennsylvania from D+4 to R+1 moving red 19 electoral votes
Texas from an R+10 down to an R+5 moving blue 40 electoral votes
Wisconsin from a D+10 to a R+1 moving red 10 electoral votes

Things change, swing states become solid states while solid states move into the swing state category. I was around when the south was solid democratic while the northeast belonged to the old liberal Rockefeller republicans. California was a red state until 1992 when it turned solid blue, Texas was blue until 1976 when it became solid red, now is trending back to blue. Change is constant, but change continues.

Or pick any frame you want and declare the source of the defeat has been identified and milk the next several weeks going on talk shows, internet platforms or ol timey print media and make bank professing to have the answers.

Dem Corp lost the supreme courts for decades. The culture, they’re last redoubt, is now a minority one. The working class looks to have found another place to go. Ditto what’s left of the unions. They’ve made an alliance of the working class (whom they despise) and the oligarchs. A very dark arrangement.

It seems like the one off circumstances surrounding the 2020 election victory allowed Dem Corp to think they could win it with a similar approach in 2024. Here’s your candidate we’ve decided you should vote for. Nothing will change..

Or it was Hispanic men. Whatever..

Or age cohort?

Now do class alignment..

This might interest you Rick. Comparing 2020 to 2024 gender by race

White men 2020 60-37 Trump, 2024 61-38 Trump
White women 2020 55-44 Trump, 2024 53-45 Trump – Not much difference
Black men 2020 79-19 Biden, 2024 77-21 Harris
Black women 2020 90-9 Biden, 2024 91-7 Harris
Hispanic men 2020 59-36 Biden, 2024 55-43 Trump – Huge difference – from voting for Biden 2020 to voting for Trump in 2024. That’s from a plus 23 points for Biden to a minus 12. A swing of 35 points toward Trump.
Hispanic women 2020 69-30 Biden, 2024 60-38 Harris - Another big difference. From a plus 39 for Biden to a plus 22 for Harris. A swing of 17 points in favor of Trump.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

Trump gained a point among white men and women from his 2020 showing, gained 2 points among black men, lost 2 points among black women. It was Hispanics that gave Trump his win. Trump gained 19 points above his 2020 performance from Hispanic men and gained 8 points from Hispanic women. Trump owes his election win to the minority Hispanic vote, not from whites. Who would have thought?

White woman are jealous of other successful women. Plus white women don't believe that there should be a woman president. Muslims stayed home because they thought VP Harris' Gaza policy would be the same as ol' Joe's.

It takes 1 to 2 years for a presidents policies to take effect. Trump was riding on Obama’s policies. Trump did nothing his first year - even though he dad a Republican House and Senate. He finally got the tax cut in very late December 2017. Then in 2018, Trump initiated tariffs that harmed the American consumer and the American farmer. In fact, Trump had to compensated the American farmers for their losses. Trump’s policies became in effect in 2019 and 2020. 2020 is when the economy tanked.

Trump will take credit for ol' Joe's economic turn around, just as Trump took credit for eight years of Obama economic policy. The orange clown doesn't understand that tariffs harm consumers.

Also, more importantly, after the rise of cable and the sunset of The Fairness Doctrine, news ceased being any kind of public service because it became necessary for it to become a consumer product. And that means the consumer is always right, so news tells consumers what they want to hear whereas if it's a public service, it tells you what you NEED to hear.

We have spent forty years letting news tell us comforting stories and confirm our biases.
If the news BUSINESS of the last forty something years has taught us anything, and it has taught us precious little, it has taught us that we are always right and that they are not to be trusted.

I say that news is only to be trusted if it behaves like the close friend who is willing to tell you uncomfortable truth.
Not YOUR truth, not MY truth, not God's truth, THE TRUTH.
It's been a very long time since news did that, or was even ABLE to do that.
And it is our fault. We let the news become a consumer product. We voted for the people who were willing to make that happen....
because the news was making us uncomfortable, and Americans do not want to feel uncomfortable.

And with that, I think I am withdrawing somewhat from politics.
Nothing I said or did made any difference...not "for America", not for any of my fellow Americans, but even any difference for myself and my family.
It did no good, it only sapped my strength and well being, and made me older and sicker.

I do not have a lot of years left. I know it.
I'm going to do whatever I can to make those last years happier, because once I'm gone, none of this will matter anymore, at least to me.
My daughter doesn't need to stick her thumb in the air to know which way the wind is blowing and we will do what we can to make her more prepared.
But that's it, that's the ball game.

I'm glad both my parents are dead, father in 1986, mother in 2012.
They were spared all of this.

I'm going to spare myself and my wife and kid as much as possible even if it just means making the end more bearable.

The democrats had a huge cash advantage and has had that cash advantage ever since 2008 when Obama outraised and spent McCain 745 million to 368 million. Obama cash advantage over Romney 814 million to 628 million. 2016 Clinton 1.1 billion to Trump’s 646.8 million, 2020 Biden 1.6 billion, Trump 1.1 billion, 2024 Harris 1.65 billion, Trump 1.1 billion

https://www.opensecrets.org/2024-presidential-race

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres08

Outside of voter turnout, I’d say Harris’s campaign of I’m not Trump didn’t work. It worked for Biden in 2020, but that was because elections are a referendum on the sitting president’s job performance. This year’s election was a referendum on the Biden administration. Harris couldn’t overcome the 56% of all Americans who disapproved of the job Biden and his administration had done. Even with Trump as Harris’s opponent. I thought she could and would. I was mistaken.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/approval-rating

No sitting president has won reelection nor the sitting president’s replacement won the next election with an overall job approval of below 50% These elections was when a sitting president job approval was below 50%. None of them won, not Stevenson, Truman’s replacement in 1950, not Humphrey, LBJ’s replacement in 1968, Ford lost reelection in 1976, Carter lost reelection in 1980, G.H.W. Bush lost reelection in 1992, McCain G.W. Bush’s replace lost in 2008, Trump lost in 2020 and now Harris, Biden’s replacement lost in 2024.