Capitol Hill Blue Forums Thread Like Summary - 2024 Election Forum

This is very interesting.

How Trump's trials will make a mess of the 2024 election

https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-trumps-trials-will-make-a-mess-of-the-2024-election-090024220.html

I like Jay Inslee for VP pick, and here is why:

Jay Inslee is termed-out as governor of the state of Washington in December 2024. There would be no need for a special election.

In 2013, Jay Inslee became the 23rd Governor of the US state of Washington. Before becoming the governor, he was a United States Congressman in the House of Representatives for more than 20 years.

Inslee graduated from the University of Washington and Willamette University College of Law. A politically active student, he became a criminal prosecutor after graduation.

Jay Inslee was regional director for the United States Department of Health and Human Services under President Bill Clinton.

Inslee centered his previous presidential campaign around climate change and other environmental issues. His policy positions included transitioning the United States completely to zero-emission renewable energy by 2035, and investing in the creation of a clean energy economy and additional jobs. Inslee is also pro-STEM in education. Jay has also pushed for more equal access to education for disadvantaged populations, such as undocumented immigrants, DREAMers, and incarcerated folks. Jay pushed for large investments in mental health programs, universal preschool through age four, free or reduced college tuition, reflecting the principles of the College Grant Program he implemented in Washington state.

Inslee is pro-woman, pro-LGBTQIA+, pro-environment, pro-science.

Or, a large segment of the voting population is currently ignoring the polls and not responding yet.

Would I welcome a significant primary challenger to Biden right now?
Only if it's obviously someone who has the juice, the electability, overwhelming popularity and a level of confidence and competence that is absolutely undeniable, even to Joe.

It would have to be someone who is so damn good that even Joe might consider volunteering to pass the torch.
But I have little to no worries that Joe can win the election.
I would entertain shuffles in the Veep slot but it's not as if I think Kamala is terrible, she's just been more of a behind the scenes Veep, which plenty of Veeps down through history HAVE been before her.

She is not a Dick Cheney. But gimme someone who is absolutely incredible like I talked about above and....sure okay, let's consider that option. They COULD BE a take charge Veep who reinforces Joe and is prepared in the event Joe DOES have to step aside. But that IS the historic role OF ALL Veeps.
LBJ got the job handed to him under worse circumstances, but let's remember, the government and the party were prepared for that possibility all along.

So it's not as if it's much different. Joe Biden doesn't have a wiped camshaft or a catastrophic connecting rod failure in the offing.

"Oh, Joe's a little old and a little tired, let's go ahead and give it to Trump!"
Are you ****ing kidding me? ????

All in all perotista's arguments for "the wisdom of independents" doesn't sound like a good advertisement for being an independent. If I didn't know better it's almost like saying independents really just want "the image of a strongman telling them what to think and do" without him actually BEING "a strong man"...just the appearance of it.

That's almost like wanting to force people into agreeing that WWE Wrestling is real.

Does that really sound like a good argument for being an independent, or does it sound more like an argument for being a sucker for media polling that was pre-designed to produce an already agreed upon desired polling result?

I bet twenty bucks that I can create a poll that says 65% of Americans want to contract terminal cancer if I hire enough think tanks to sell the idea of the benefits of terminal cancer to enough Americans.

The problem with humans is we need government to avoid total chaos.

The problem with government is humans.

It doesn't appear that getting rid of either one is an option...

That's what I feared is happening. What this means is that we have a congressional house where EVERYBODY needs to be replaced! Reason is simple, they are stuck and cannot do their jobs. The people on both sides who are actually willing to talk to the other side should probably setup another group. They could call it something like; Politicians Trying to Do Their Jobs I know, its not gonna happen but it would be good if they would. I think the other problem is that each side, in either party, fears the loons and jerks. Its truly a shame. Its a shame for the voters who screwed up, its a shame for the members of the congress who could actually do their jobs if they actually tried and didn't fear the wrath of their crazys, etc.

It would also be nice if our media actually reported who might, or might not, actually work with folks of like mind in the other side. Maybe all they need is a little push?

As an aside the Republicans are going to now try and pass a bill to take care of the southern border even though they have one which was put together by both sides that Trump forbid to get done. One would think that they might take a run at going after their existing loons and crazies. The republicans are so crazy they are going to ignore the bill that would give them both laurels and, instead, prove that they are all jackasses.

First it i not just the Democrats who are saying Trump is a danger to Democracy, it is a whole list of former Republican employees of Trump, former high level government officials, both partisan and not, including from the military, Constitutional attorneys, etc. Why is it not taking hold? How about the American electorate is simply ignorant and stupid. If you have seen any interviews of MAGA people, you would know how ignorant, stupid, and bigoted they are. These folks are in a political cult, so they will never change their mind. Only people not in the cult should be addressed. Are these folks too ignorant stupid not to realize what dangerous rhetoric Trump uses, or are they simply MAGA in disguise? What I do know is the Trump propaganda machine has baked in the misinformation and disinformation, so it will not make any difference touting Pres Biden's achievements.

We are on the precipice of the most precipitous election since the 1860 election. Democracy is on the line. Policy issues will not persuade the ignorant and stupid, however the threat of losing their freedom to a dictator may.

Biden beating Trump in the majority of polls

P ... I am not arguing the accuracy nor the efficacy of polls. My argument is it doesn't matter a mote what the polls are saying. I am arguing the fix is in and Trump will be the future occupant of the WH, regardless of what the future vote totals say.

Yep you read it here .... yes I am that mad voice alerting the populace of the Death of Democracy. Get ready to take the loyalty oath.

Rapace

I would be a lot happier if Trump lost. If that happened then all the charges would be dealt with in a courtroom and THAT would entertain. Given the charges I also suspect that he would be found guilty and would not be surprised if prison would be around the corner for him. This is also a good reason for Trump to do EVERYTHING/ANYTHING to make sure he wins which also means that the Dems would be smart to make sure everything is done correctly as his minions are capable, I am sure, to do what ever it takes to keep their lord and master in power.

For now, I will keep on hoping. Oh, RKF - he got a female contributor with big bucks. I think he is also going to make her his vice president. (bit of humor as well!)

My pessimism is grounded in reality. So what does that mean? Well, unlike so many Americans who said in 2020 Trump would voluntarily leave the WH ... well ... because that is what Americans who lose do. Right! Those folks apparently did not pay attention to what Trump said and did.

They only had a couple of months to prepare for an insurrection so they got too many things wrong and poor planning with improper support from the right people doomed the fight in the Capitol building itself. Guess what? They have had 4 years to prepare for a coup. They have built a machine ready for the chance Trump may actually lose the vote count. Unlike Republicans in 2020 who did uphold the Constitution. they have strategically placed election boards with Trump loyalists, who are ore than willing to throw votes out to guarantee a Trump win. They have rewritten the election laws so SoS doesn't have the power to oversee an election and replaced SoS with a Trump loyalists, also willing to ensure a Trump win. Moving on they have nominated and confirmed Trump loyalists to the federal bench thus ensuring siding with Trump in any legal proceeding. Trump loyalists control the House. The new House rules allow guns on the floor, thus should there have to be an onsite insurrection, Trump loyalists will be ready with armed support. And when the objections come the Trump loyalists in the House will ensure the next president will be decided in the House and not by the voters.

So why should I be optimistic?

I don’t know how old you are jgw. But when I first begin school back in the 1950’s, saying the pledge of allegiance was usually the first thing done. There was prayer in school, prayer prior to any ceremony. We got good Friday off school. Christmas decorations galore, having the manger scene on school property and other public buildings and much more. All that stuff has ceased. I never thought anything about it, it was just normal. The ten commandments were posted on the courthouse. That U.S. law was derived from the ten commandments.

This was what was where I grew up. Heck, every store in town closed on Sundays to include restaurants, grocery stores and gas stations. Nothing is closed today on Sunday. Times change. However, I agree with Goldwater when he told Reagan when he courted the religious right that those religious zealots would be the death to the Republican Party. Here’s one of his quotes, “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

Religious folks are going to vote based on their religion just like folks will vote based on the political ideology. I firmly believe that no religion nor any political ideology ought to be forced on anyone. It’s like I said though, folks are going to vote their own self-interest.

Seems you keep making my case.

soooo ... why are you optimistic???

Jeffrey, I know Trump got a lot of free media exposure Clinton didn’t in 2016. That was because of his outrageousness and that he believed in that old showman’s adage. That there’s no such thing as bad publicity, no publicity is bad. A lot of Trump’s coverage was portraying him in a bad light for his outrageousness and stupid things he said and did. But it kept him in the spotlight along with forcing Clinton’s coverage much later in the news report. Sort of a front page vs. back page coverage. The thing is Trump outrageousness drew in viewership whereas Clinton’s more normal demeanor was in the boring category where folks didn’t tune her in. That outrageousness paid off in 2016.

Clinton on the other hand ran a very inept campaign, hid from the media for the most part, relying on paid advertisements whereas Trump’s got his exposure for free. One can’t overlook the fact Hillary let Trump both outwork and out campaign her. 117 campaign rallies, visits, stops for Trump, only 71 for Clinton which looks larger than it actually was. That 71 included fund raisers in deep blue California and New York. Clinton racked in the money; one could call her money savvy. Trump was much more media savvy. Trump was always busy calling into every morning TV talk show whether they were for or against him. Clinton appeared on The View a couple of times and that was basically it. She only went on programs 100% for her. There’s much more. Something happened to Hillary between the primaries and the general election. In the primaries she was aggressive, a go getter. But became laid back as if she thought the presidency was hers without having to work for it. Without giving it the old college try. What that was or what happened to her I don’t know. Perhaps she thought Sanders was the bigger threat to her gaining the presidency than Trump. That once she defeated Sanders, she had the presidency in the bag. I don’t know as that is pure speculation. All I know is the get up and go she had displayed during primaries got up and left her during the general election.

She had a 7-point lead in the polls at the begining of the campaign season, 1 September which shrunk to 3 point in November. She won the popular vote by 2.1 points. She made no campaign visit to Wisconsin, only one to Michigan, 5 to Pennsylvania. Whereas Trump made 5 to Wisconsin, 6 to Michigan and 8 to Pennsylvania. The 5 to Pennsylvania includes an election eve visit to Pittsburgh. Even in electoral rich Florida, she let Trump outwork and out campaign her there 13 visits, rallies to 8 for Clinton.

I’d say Clinton lost because she became lazy, not because of the media or free airtime. Had Hillary worked as hard as she did to get the democratic nomination in the general election, she'd have won the presidency. For whatever reason she didn't, she became lazy.

I believed you analyzed it incorrectly.

That was a race between a first day apprentice (pun intended) and a wisened journeywomen in the world of real politics. Trump was and remains a clueless buffoon whose sole objective is to ensconce himself as emperor a la Napoleon. Both Clinton and Biden are far more competent in the workings of government and that was what should have been the criteria, despite the fact neither has the charisma Trump has nor the cult following, but the presidential race is not about cults or charisma,. It is about competence and character. Biden demonstrates both, while Clinton's only flaw was the egoism to want to keep her private email from the prying eyes of the paranoid rightwing nuts.

We are now in the throes of a similar kind of race. This time we know the stakes are Democracy itself. We have a competent, although not brilliant nor charismatic person with character, pitted against a felonious, fraudster, sex offending incompetent. anti-Democratic, insurrectionist, who holds sway over a cult of followers. Do you believe you should sit this one out??? Yikes!!!!

Newt Gingrich is the cause.

Sure both parties have non-starting political ideas from which they will not budge, which simply makes them who and what they are, however, the Democrat party has been more than willing to compromise on issues, as examples look at Obamacare or the Sen Langford's efforts in Immigration legislation. The problem is not with reasonable, rational men but with the MAGA extremists who will not under any circumstance negotiate a compromise with Democrats or Rhino's.

Compromise is possible ... only not with MAGA.

Maybe by capitulating to all dictators/authoritarians?

Super red 'The Villages' a hotbed of Trump enthusiast held a rally for VP Harris today. Over 200 golf cart riders attended!

When you lose 'The Villages,' your FL campaign is toast.

Raw Story.com

Cat ladies ... really!

I think everyone has missed the importance of Vance's comments. They have honed in on "cat ladies", but I see a more threatening meaning. I have long noticed Republicans have suggested at various times that only people with property should be allowed to vote. It is in this vein that Vance's comment makes far more sense.

Vance had included within his comment the phrase "[those with] no direct stake" in America. What he is inferring is some people are better than others due to their social, and by extension any criteria, condition. This sounds like bigotry pure and simple. It also formed the basis for Republican calls for only landed people given the right to vote, or to put it in his terms, those with a direct stake in America. So it appears to me he wants only the billionaire class to have the right to vote , since they have the greatest stake in the future of America.

No wonder he wrote the preface to Project 2025. No wonder Trump said you won't have to vote again. Yep ... it means the complete transformation of a Democratic America into an autocratic America. Can we recover at this precipice in history? The deck is stacked against the lovers of Democracy as I see the letters of the idea slowly dissolving before my eyes as I type.

Remember, Trump is a media STAR! Millions watched his show with bated breath. I think that the beginnings of his base were victims, sorry, watchers of his TV show wherein he was incredibly rich, famous, could do no wrong, and according to them in media, a REAL entertainer. Then he lost his show and the watchers didn't have him as a hero any longer but media created him and he was still available! They joined up and never looked back. They even brought their friends! The entertainment continued and everything is dandy.

Obviously, the American Voting Public at its very best!!

Apologies, couldn't resist. Seems as good as anything as to why................

Trump doesn’t know what he is, what he stands for or believes in. The 7-time party switcher has adopted whatever political ideology or philosophy of the party he belonged to at the time. The man is an empty shell as to political beliefs of his own when it comes to the issues facing us and the country. Trump is completely devoid of a political ideology of his own. If one views his political history, he’s been on both sides of every political issue and in the middle depending on which political party he belonged to at the time. The man believes in nothing except himself. He’s loyal to no one or anything except himself.

I started, and then lost, this. I am going to try again;

My problem:

This is my thought on Trump and the fact that he actually might win the election which scares the crap out of me and also makes, absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. It also makes me wonder about the health of the brains of a large portion of the American Voting Pulbic. Our TV media spent something like 17/18 years presenting Trump as a supreme business man, all man, smart, cagey, and entertaining (I think they created somebody who really didn't exist). As far as I can tell, from both the TV and speaking to some who are supporting Trump I believe that the supporters are quite aware of Trump, his failures, his crimes, etc. One would think, that if that was true they would NOT be supporting yet they are. When I started this quest I thought, perhaps, that all supporters where just ignorant. That is simply not true! The fact is that if something they think is bad is said they have excuses. Some are: "He is just kidding", "He is making a point and doesn't really mean it" , "You are missing his point!", "Its his way", You don't understand", etc. (in other words they have an excuse for virtually ANYTHING that might be bad or strange). I think the thing that bothers me the most is that Trump supporters have either forgotten just how screwed up his presidency was or they have actually removed all memory of that one. I remember, at the time, that there was something over 150 historians, for instance, that said that the Trump presidency was, flat out, the worst presidency the the history of the United states! So, in my thought that there must be the truth out there I offer (I am assuming that these are all true and real and what I do remember):
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/historians-voted-trump-worst-president-ever/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Donald_Trump
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+was+a+bad+businessman&t=newext&atb=v453-2&ia=web
https://people.com/donald-trump-every-criminal-charge-explained-7567024

Anyway, when one considers all of the above it becomes pretty clear, something really bad and terrible has happened to the citizens of the United States and, for whatever, it simply makes no sense as far as I can tell. Are the Trump supporters, a substantial part of the American voting public Crazy? Sick? Ignorant? or am I one, or more, of the same? This is serious! I have been in this condition for most of the time because this one is a real problem with me. I am just wondering if anybody else has a problem or they have come to believing ......? If you have a solution I would REALLY like to know!!!!

It also makes one wonder. Is this why we have so much gun killing, and children gun killing? Out of control teen-agers, etc. Is this why so many states are making laws against what people have done for years, etc? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

When one peels back all the rationalizations and all the defenses of Trump given by MAGA-heads, there is only one conclusion, it's the obvious bigotry which appeals to MAGA and drives their support for Trump.

Consider this ... every Republican who ran for president had the same policy agenda as Trump, and yet none of them survived the primaries. Why? Because they didn't either subtlety or outright make it known bigotry drives the Republican BASE. Gov DaSantis, in my opinion had the best shot since he already had weaponized the state against everything MAGA hates, which should have been very appealing to these bigots but it wasn't. Why? Because he wouldn't outright say it. He kept hedging the reasoning in legalese. All he had to do was say it loud and proud and I think he may have won. In my estimation he would be a better choice than Trump since Da Santis would at least not destroy Democracy, but would try and use it to implement a MAGA agenda.

It's sad so many would sacrifice Democracy to get a political result they want. As every high profile Republican/conservative commentator has said in the last 20 years ... they just can't sell their product.

Its really quite simple. Trump is going to take over pretty soon and then he will begin to do what he has said he is going to do. Then we get to wait a bit more to see if he upsets anybody. I think that if bad things happen then there are going to be people who will be unhappy if they are experiencing bad things. I am not convinced that the true believers are going to be real happy if they have no food, no place, no nuthin. I can remember the last Trump presidency. He was not exactly loved by a lot of people.

I think what happened, this time, is that there were a lot of people who were just sick and tired of the whole thing and wanted a change, ANY change! Now they will watch that happen. Trump may actually do well and make folks happy! We just really do not know. Since there is little choice I am going to just stick around and see what happens. I had thought to move but, actually, I'm a little old for moving around and have lived in the same house for about 70 years now and one gets a bit attached over time.

I do, however, wish us all well. I realize some are more concerned than others. All I can say about that one is "So? Watcha gonna do?" The real answer is pretty easy - "Not much I can do but wait". All that being said I also suspect that the best thing to do is just carry on as best as possible, keep their heads down and their mouths kinda shut. I am really sick of my own whining and the whining of others. The TV, for instance, seems to be insistent that we can do nothing, we are going to all have a terrible time, and so we are to just whine, cry, pray and be miserable.

In other words I would suggest we all back off, think kind thoughts, hope and just survive.

I wish us all good luck!!!