Originally Posted by chunkstyle
Ukraine had become a defacto member of NATO.

Can't believe I have to say this, but words actually have meanings.
There is no "de facto" except in the mind of Putin, who is approaching the point where he's just about
ready to say that ANYTHING short of falling down in abject fealty at his feet constitues an act of war against him.

Someone in Ukraine said the WORD "NATO" and Putin is having a rage-gasm over it.

Except, the truth is, you're either a member of NATO or you're not.
If Ukraine WAS a NATO member, the amount of time needed to set up a no-fly zone would be less than 24 hours.
If they were a NATO member, then NATO would already be IN COUNTRY...they're not.

You don't get to just say stuff and suddenly it's true.
Ukraine isn't a NATO member.
It's not even in the EU, although that is NOW probably a done deal but that's Putin's fault.

Look, he's probably going to wind up GETTING total control over his "now independent" Donetsk and Luhansk
oblasts, but it's going to cost him way more than before the invasion.
He's probably not going to get much else...had he held off, he might have gotten a better deal.
The more he digs his heels in, the more the entire free world resists.

I really don't expect you to change your views on anything, but know this:

This isn't just America taking a stand anymore...it never really was in the first place.
A cursory look at all of Europe should prove that point.
It's not even just about America's military either, or Europe's.
It's about the PEOPLE, and again, a cursory look at the people's reactions all over Europe should prove that point.

By going full tilt on Ukraine, Putin has galvanized public opinion against him.
He's NEVER going to see a return to even grudging acceptance.

That's not even me talking, it's what everyone in the free world is SEEING...right here...right now.