Capitol Hill Blue Forums Thread Like Summary - Memory Loss

I may have posted some of this before. If so - apologies. Oh, I recently turned 86. I have a neurosurgeon that the VA has me going to. I see him about every year and a half. He asks me a bunch of questions and gives me tests and sends me on my way after I ask him questions about what is going on.

My dad's wife once told me that my dad had Alzheimer's. At the time there wasn't really anybody in town who was competent to actually diagnose that so I sent both of them up to Seattle to get tested. She was fine and my dad had memory problems. At the end he didn't really even know where he was or who he was but there was no dementia. After I got tested I was told that I was not a candidate for Alzheimer but I did have some memory problems. Since then (about 5 years ago) my memory problems have become more defined so I thought I would pass on some of the stuff I now know about.

My problem with my memory has more to do with my memory span than my actual memory. What happens is that I can no longer deal with multiple things. I used to be able to balance several conversations at the same time, for instance. That is no longer the case. If I am talking to somebody, and somebody interrupts me, I will likely forget my stream of thought and have no clue what I was talking about! If anybody is having something like this going on its NOT Alzheimer! As far as I know there is really no solution to this one and is what it is. The best plan is to understand what is going on and proceed with your life! I also checked for existing stuff being sold for memory. The most popular is Prevagin. If you google it you will find out that there is no basis for the claims made by this one and doesn't really help. Those that think it does are deluded (sorry). Fish oil may help and may not but there is a lot more studies with that than Prevagin.

My personal view is that the trick is to understand what is going on then get advise as to how to deal with it. For myself I have found that just almost understanding what I am dealing with has been half the problem. I can no longer deal with interruptions, for instance. If I get interrupted whatever I was doing is forgotten, pure and simple. I also have serious speech aphasia (forgetting words). This one is constant and frustrating. If you have access to something like google you can ask and chances are you will find the missing word! I also have no problem remembering things in the past, say, 40 or 50 years which I have always wondered why and about.

Anyway, I thought I would throw this in for those of you who might be aging with minor problems. Oh, you will also learn that to say "where was I" more and more as time goes on (I also remember a song by that name!)

And I’m so glad he’s doing well.

A couple of months ago the VA decided that I needed hearing aids. So, now I have hearing aids. The strange thing is that I can't tell the difference but am told they are working fine. One thing the hearing aids did help, however, was tinnitus. It cut the noise by at least 50%

Then there is the memory thing. I have come to the conclusion that its not all memory loss but a problem with attention span. The results are the same for both of them. I have found that I can no longer carry multiple subjects at the same time. If, for instance, I am talking about something and somebody brings something up my original subject takes flight. Its not a bad memory is a loss of enough attention. I used to have no problem with 5 or 6 things running at the same time with no problem. No longer...

I have actually and literally had a word on the tip of my tongue and then get mildly interrupted by just about anything and the word takes flight. The frustrating thing about that one is that I actually know that I had the word and THEN lost it.

My husband nearly died of herpesvirus encephalitis 4 years ago. At 65 he was just barely in door of Medicare (thank god). He was in the hospital for 5 weeks, icu 10 days, 6 days in a comma.

He came out with pretty bad aphasia.
Extensive speech therapy, in which I sat, helped a lot. More importantly I learned from that lovely lady and have done a lot of things at home to help him retrain his brain.

I am beyond grateful. His brain recovered 99% and still going.
Of course he's one of the smartest people I've ever known.
He's a retired CPA. Numbers and reasoning never left him.

Plus his tinnitus seems to have gone away. Go figure.

I'm just approaching 70, and my spelling ability has fled the scene. Consonants are fine. It's the vowels that I get confused. But it's not my fault! I can still spell Spanish words perfectly, unless they are Mayan borrow-words. It's the English words that have confusing vowel sounds. I guess this means my executive function and logic are fine, but I no longer remember all the words I had to memorize to spell properly.

I've always had the inability to listen to a single speaker in a crowded room filled with conversations. The only time it matters is when my wife tries talking to me while I'm on the phone. I keep telling her I can't follow either speaker when she does that, but I guess she can't remember that!

I do have scars scattered around my brain, according the MRIs. A few words and names I just can't recall, even though I have so many connections to them I know they exist. I have to Google them when I'm trying to write something with that word. For example, "Natalie Portman". Can't remember her name for more than a few minutes, though I know who she is, remember her films, etc.

NWP, I wonder if you might benefit from some speech therapy. There are some similarities between a stroke and encephalitis...fluid on the brain.
There are indeed exercises to help relearn some of those lost words and spelling too.
Gary's stumbles every now again aren't noticeable to other people either. He's learned to find another word or quickly self correct.
For a while he wasn't comfortable interacting with other people especially telephone calls.

Our adorable young speech therapist, Elizabeth, says crosswords and other kinds of puzzles are good exercises for memory.
I'm glad you're discussing it with your doc.

To understand the complexity of memory and its loss, it is necessary to learn a bit about the hippocampus and its very complex structure and functions. This part of the ancient brain is crucial for the acquisition of new memories and transferring them to long term storage, called Long Term Potentiation, LTP

Unfortunately the hippocampus is also subject to many kinds of damage, including Amyloid deposition and atrophy in AD (JGW) exquisite susceptibility to ischemic damage after cardiac arrest, ischemia from stroke,(NWP) and inflammatory damage from herpes encephalitis that usually affects the temporal lobes. (Olyve) All of these conditions can cause various forms of memory loss/dysfunction. I will be adding more images and references to help clarify these. This is a section of hippocampus stained to show neurons from 1886, that show the architectural complexity needed for it's complex functions, and how easy it would be to disrupt them.
https://hekint.org/2019/11/21/staining-the-cells-of-the-nervous-system/

TAT
The Hippocampus in health and disease: An overview


Since hippocampus receives direct inputs from olfactory bulb, it is important that it was implicated in olfaction for a long time.[18] Memory started dominating in early 1970s, with the description of LTP.[19] Anterograde and partial retrograde amnesia developed in a patient called Henry Gustav Molaison (called HM)[20] following removal of hippocampus due to refractory epilepsy. HM was unable to form new episodic memories following this surgery. In medical science, HM has been perhaps the most studied medical patient. Later studies have shown that damage to hippocampus causes anterograde amnesia and often retrograde amnesia also. Implicit memory is spared in hippocampal damage.[20,21]

Hippocampus is one of the unique regions in brain where the neurogenesis[22] continues even in adult life. Though, described initially, as “too little,” neurogenesis in brain is now thought to be functionally important. It has been seen that neurons, hence, produced integrate into the mainstream neurons. They have also, hence, shown to be functionally important. However, a recent review agreed that neurogenesis per se may be less attractive drug target[8] than hippocampal atrophy as a whole.

Hippocampus is now known not just to be important in learning and memory but also in:

Spatial navigation[24]

Emotional behavior[25]

Regulation of hypothalamic functions[27]

Learning and Memory: Hippocampus is vital for learning, memory, and spatial navigation. Connections between hippocampus and neocortex are important for awareness about conscious knowledge.[28] An intricate balance is maintained during encoding of memories in hippocampus and retrieval of experiences from frontal lobe. For learning and memory loop, there are two prominent pathways: polysynaptic and direct pathway. In polysynaptic pathway, hippocampus gets afferent connections from parietal, temporal, and occipital areas via entorhinal cortex and then to dentate gyrus→CA3→ CA1→ subiculum→ alveus→ fimbria→ fornix→ mammillothalamic tract→ anterior thalamus→ posterior cingulated→ retrosplenial cortex. In the direct intra-hippocampal pathway, it gets its input from temporal association cortex through perirhinal and entorhinal area to CA1. From there, projections move via subiculum and entorhinal crtex to inferior temporal cortex, temporal pole, and prefrontal cortex. It is important to remember that polysynaptic pathway is important in semantic memory while direct intra-hippocampal pathway is important in episodic and spatial memory.[28]

Other Roles: Hippocampus is a part of ventral striatal loop, hence can affect motor behavior.[30] Though emotional behavior is regulated mainly by amygdala, hippocampus and amygdala both have reciprocal connections, thus can influence each other (latter affects more than former). Since hippocampus has projections to hypothalamus, thus can affect release of adrenocorticotropic hormones. That is why, in patients with atrophied hippocampus, there is rise of cortisol.[27]

Wow! My problems continue to appear. This one is odd. I just spent about 20 minutes trying to reply. Then I apparently hit the wrong key and it all went away. Have no idea what happened. I can remember a time when something like that might upset me a bit. Now, however, when something like that happens I just shrug it off as there is nothing else to do and I seem to have got to a place where more stuff is simply there and accepted because it IS.

First, if you don't have a digital voice recorder buy one, its cheap and helpful. If you say, hear, or read something of interest take out your recorder and say something about it. Then, even if you have forgotten what it was you will probably remember it when you hear what you recorded. The memory thing is very strange. You may think that you have forgotten something but, if somebody, or your recorder, has a good thought there is a very good chance you WILL REMEMBER! If your recording is not helpful, accept that, delete that, and move on with your life. Hell, sometimes I am doing something and try and remember six words to copy someplace else. I I wanted to remember "copy someplace else". If I haven't recorded the three words odds are I can't remember them. As soon as I hear the recording, however, I will usually remember everything. Just a thought.

I also find that all of us dealing with the VA are doing it differently. I have a single person (for get what they are called but I will, eventually remember, and its not important, I think its something like helper and provider but not sure). Anyway, up here the VA doesn't really have a lot of doctors and things so they will send me to the local hospital/medical place which is fine with me. Most of the time I go there for medical things because its easier for them to deal with my insurance rather than VA. In any case it really makes no difference. The thing that is bothersome is that the VA and the Port Angeles medical folks do not share anything with one another which, sometimes, makes a mess.

What I started, and then lost, is REALLY lost. I have no idea what I said. This is not a memory problem is the problem with sticking with something or remembering such. This is not memory so much as attention span. It took me a long time to understand that one. If I am talking to somebody about something, and somebody else walks up and asks a question or says something, whatever I was thinking about and saying has gone with the wind. That one is something to get used to. I am now, pretty much, not real upset when that happens because one can get used to anything once you discover what happened. I have been to shrinks and helpers now and then but none of them have ever mentioned this one. For a long time this one was something that would upset me. It took me a long time to figure out its a problem in that my brain no longer stores everything and when this happens it was never really there in the first place. I betcha, if you think on it, that its really not that unusual for some brains. I have however, if I think I am talking to somebody and its really important or interesting I try and move to a place where somebody is unlikely to interrupt. Interruption is interesting all on its own. When I think on it I really never had such a problem before the s*** hit the fan. There is a saying; "s*** happens". I started, a couple of years ago, REALLY believing in that one. Stuff happens, nobody is at fault, it just was and get over it.

There was some other stuff but this is it for now. Hope I haven't wasted anybody's time. Just trying to help and talking about this is helpful for me. I can't do it with my wife. If I start she wants terribly to help and has no idea what she is helping with. We get along fine and have been married for 60 some years but one has to be careful, otherwise ..........

She is taking a trip with a daughter next month for which I am grateful. I have been putting on weight and its time to lose some. My plan is simple and it works great but will not work with her here. I just stop eating. After 4 days I am no longer hungry. She will be gone for 3 weeks and that will do the job. I have talked to 3 different doctors about this one. Its REALLY strange. Each of the 3 told me they do exactly the same thing and one must take all vitamins and pills and, other than that, you should be fine. They also told me that I was to tell nobody because that might make trouble for them. Given what my wife thinks (she thinks I will die every time I do it which is rarely) I can only imagine what somebody would think of a doctor that would do such a foolish thing.

I bit of information. Does everybody know that to become a doctor takes about 800,000 dollars. Most of that is a federal loan. Every one of the 3 doctors are REALLY pissed off about those loans. There was a time when gov was charging a bigger charge for the loan than the banks! I had one, a woman heart doctor who was married to a Canadian doctor (he had no loan as Canada takes care of this). They have both moved to Canada and she plans not to pay the loan. They saved up 100,000 to pay on the loan and it didn't even cover the cost of the loan (cannot say the word that represents "the cost of the loan" <sigh>)

Sorry, really gonna stop now!!

I think that I might have not mentioned how important 'routine' is when dementia occurs. Setup routines for everything that you do regulary from brushing your teeth to anything else you can think of and do it as soon as you can. If you don't you WILL have problems!!

Please note, I can't remember if I have told anybody here about this one or not. My memory simply stinks. When, for instance, I am deciding what show to watch I have to ask my wife if we have seen it. Luckily, in my list of watched shows, most of those I have seen go away but sometimes..........