Capitol Hill Blue Forums Thread Like Summary - J6: Putting it all together

In the communications between the insurrectionists at all levels in the weeks leading up to the J6 insurrection, the insurrections believed, and were counting on, antiFA showing up in large numbers to physically battle the insurrectionists.

But the didn't happen because antiFA was told to stay away, per PBS' Frontline. Because antiFA did not show, this threw everything off for the Patriot Boys/Oath Keepers/Three Percenters.

Additionally, there was always a plan for post-insurrection disinformation and this was compartmentalized.

What was supposed to happen is, Trump was to get his heavily armed followers riled-up at the Eclipse, he was going lead the charge into the Capitol, which is why Trump said, "it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down."

Once inside the Capitol, the plan included a clash between antiFA and Proud Boys/Oath Keepers/Three Percenters and the plan was to kill Pence, and Pelosi, and 12 Democrats under the cover of rioting dust-up with antiFA, and then the assassins would clear out while Trump called in the National Guard to arrest antiFA for the murders.

Then Congress would reconvene and with enough Democrats killed to shift power to the Republicans in the House, they would vote to throw out the electoral votes and send the election to the House, where Trump would win.

Post-insurrection Rightwing disinformation would turn into a rampant jailing campaign against leftists, journalists, Democrats etc. Because Fox News' Laura Ingraham's opinion show was being taped during the insurrection, Laura did not have the information that antiFA did not show up, told her audience that anitFA was heavily involved in what took place at the Capitol on J6.

Trump was supposed to declare Martial Law and the Proud Boys/Oath Keepers/Three Percenters would keep order and take direction only from Trump, and Mike Flynn's brother was supposed to be second in charge..

But when the Secret Service would not take Trump to the Capitol citing many in the crowd had circumvented the metal detectors, that's when Trump told the Secret Service that crowd would not harm him and why Trump had a hissy fit when he couldn't get to the Capitol. Trump had to get to the Capitol to announce the new order of Presidential succession due to the assassination of Pence and Pelosi. That's how coups work: They're violent, quick, and then you have the pronouncement of the new order right-away.

When it was realized that antiFA did not show up, the back-up plan was to wisk Mike Pence away from the Capitol and let Chuck Grassley take-over for Mike Pence certifying the electors where Grassley was to reject the electors and insert the fake electors. Chuck Grassley on January 5th, the day before the certification of the votes, was already making comments that Mike Pence would not be certifying the votes. There are many Republican Congress people involved in the failed coup attempt.

Circling-back to the original post that started this thread...

Oath Keeper members brought explosives to DC area around January 6 and had a 'death list,'

As soon as the votes were all counted, they knew they would need a coup to keep Trump in power. It was always going to be sedition. They just wanted to inject enough confusion so they could make some excuses. I think it really threw a monkey wrench in their plans when ANTIFA didn't show up on January 6th. Trump could not declare martial law, when the only rioters were his crew.

The fact that Pence refused to leave the Capital screwed their plan as well. The funny thing is that numerous Republican lawmakers seemed to be in on the plan, because they kept on insisting the riot was all ANTIFA members, and there was a lot of talk about Somebody Else running the certification after Pence was presumable evacuated to Alaska.

I assume it's all documented in those "missing" Secret Service texts and the several hour gap in the White House recordings.

The only thing the DoJ lawyers should be discussing with Trump’s lawyers is where and when will Trump turn himself in.

I think I typed of this very problem before the election, asking the question, what if Trump would not leave the WH. I was not the only one to ask the question. Apparently Gen Milley was concerned enough to ask the same question and it's extension, could the military be engaged in Trump maintaining control of the government if he lost. Some said no way could it happen in America. Yikes ... were they ever misguided.

I believe the assault to undermine Democracy continues today. Radicalization of military personnel, and law enforcement and the delusions Christian Nationalists, white supremacists, and plain old ignorant folk all contribute to a continuing threat to Democracy. I believe we are teetering on the precipice of failure of Democracy or the continuation of the experiment. I always remind myself, how Lenin led workers and the military in an insurrection. Could our government be overthrown by a select few? Key military leaders, a dedicated cadre of militias and MAGA-heads converging on the right inflection point at the right time, could easily overthrow the government. Had the ground forces of the insurrection been better managed, I suspect they would have been successful in not only thwarting the count, Trump would have declared martial law, and installed himself as de facto Pres.

The question is, who would have prevented it???? Not the Congress, they would be detained .... not the Courts .... they have no enforcement power .... not the military .... they rely on the Pres, and even if they believed it an illegal order, what would they do? nothing. Take a poll. It can't happen in America. It did but was unsuccessful.

Jan. 6 Grand Jury Has Subpoenaed White House Documents (NYT)
Grand jury subpoenas Trump White House lawyers for Jan. 6 probe (PBS)
This is what happens when a serious investigation is nearing the finish line. I think the investigations are merging as well.

Helloooooo...

Today's revelations of Bannon's planning session and another Trump witless effort at witness tampering, and I think it's going to be hard to avoid prosecution. He's practically insisting on it.

The pace of developments is getting faster. John Eastman loses emergency request to protect his phone data from DOJ investigators(CNN); ‘Game over’: Steve Bannon audio reveals Trump planned to claim early victory (Guardian); Secret Service under pressure over erased texts and Jan. 6 actions (The Hill); Justice Dept. backs House over Jan. 6 subpoena to Meadows (Politico); 'Target letters' sent to Republicans involved in Georgia fake elector scheme(MSNBC).

That's all within the last 24 hours.

Prosecutors are discussing why Merrick Garland Should Investigate ...emes as a ‘Hub and Spoke’ Conspiracy (NYT)
[video:youtube][/video]

I read the term "prosecute as hub and spoke" last week, somewhere. When I clicked the NYT story, the date was July 11, 2022 - so last week.

Many decent people are frustrated at the slow, methodical, flipping of others on the food chain up to get at Donald Trump

Yesterday, Letitia James was supposed to put the entire Trump crime family cabal under oath in depositions, but that was postponed due to the death of Ivana Trump, Donald's first wife and mother to their three demon spawn that was to be deposed yesterday as well.

Yesterday, former Federal Prosecutor Glenn Kirschner said "Merrick Garland is not doing his damn job" after initially giving Merrick Garland the benefit of the doubt about turning people up towards Donald Trump.


I believe not prosecuting someone because they are a former president is wrong-headed and very bad precedent for our country. Mueller left it up to congress to prosecute, as if trusting any modern majority Republican political body would do the right thing when its their guy - instead of Mueller drawing up charges himself. All the Republican acquittal did was embolden the criminal POTUS.

Rick, at least, will remember the graphic I created earlier outlining the multiple "lines of effort" moving toward the insurrection. The same analysis describes the "hub and spoke" conspiracy Andrew Weissmann and Glenn Kirschner are discussing. Trump and his "Conduct the Steal" conspiracy are the hub.

Surrounding that, multiple lines of effort were directed by different conspirators - Roger Stone's Proud Boys and Oath Breakers to break into the Capitol; Rudy Giuliani's Kraken Krackpots; Eastman directed (with Giuliani) both the Fake Elector Plot and the Corrupt Congress Plot, with aid from Brooks, Johnson, Cruz, Hawley and other insiders; Jeffrey Clark honchoed the Depraved Justice Move; and Trump himself organized the Threaten State Officers, Co-Opt Mike Pence, and March on the Capitol efforts.

Reposting NW_Ps chart here:

Thanks, Rick.

The conspirators, in each effort, had the same goal. All of them knew that once the Electoral Vote was certified, the game was over. So, the goal was to prevent certification.

But the reality was, the game was over December 14, when the votes were taken and verified at the State level. Everything after that was illegal - that is, "without legal authority". In many cases they rose to the level of criminality.

None of these people truly understands how our government works. Seems to be a common theme with certain groups of people.

I wonder what those jurors did for three hours? Maybe they just wanted a free lunch out of the deal? Awfully simple case: He got a subpoena. He failed to show up, and went on TV over and over to brag about it. No defense in court. Slam-dunk guilty.

That's an impossible to win case with a jury trial. Everybody in the jury got a summons and they all showed up. Why should Mister Bigshot not have to appear when he gets one?

It's going to be very satisfying if all of the fake electors get indicted for fraud. The interesting thing is the fraud occurred in Washington DC, when they submitted their phony elector lists. So they might be tried by a DC jury instead of their home state jury. Much less chance of jury nullification in DC.

Those convictions would be the perfect thing to prevent anybody from trying that in the future.

It is interesting to see the Jan 6 investigation and the DoJ investigation converging. O watched some of the Lester Holt interview. Garland is now referring to it as "the effort to prevent the lawful transfer of power". That's significant.

Once again, Rick, you beat me to the punch. This is big. It doesn't mean Trump is about to be indicted, but it does show that DoJ is pounding on the door and testing the locks.

The danger is that next time we could have a seditious President who happened to be competent. Trump's saving grace was that he's not. All his "plans" were fantasies that included a "then a miracle happens" step, or even multiple such steps. He believed his own propaganda, so naturally his coup attempt would deliver a great outcry for Emperor Trump forever. You could see it coming when his PR people started talking about "alternate facts".

Evidence has now come to light that at least some of the lawsuits brought against the election outcome were themselves knowingly fraudulent. Not just flimsy. It seems that Kelli Ward had misgivings about committing treason when there was no legal basis for signing on as a fake elector, so they filed a suit/appeal to give her cover. That ties two of the portions of the conspiracy together neatly. Arizona Officials Warned Fake Electors Plan Could ‘Appear Treasonous' (NYT)

Not if it adds up to something absurd like 30 days in the county lockup.

It is the conviction that matters.

https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/1557082797499637764


https://irp.fas.org/cia/product/insurgency.pdf

How the FBI knew what to search for at Mar-a-Lago (Yahoo)

The Timeline Leading Up to the F.B.I.’s Search of Mar-a-Lago (NYT)

Justin Rosario:

"I'm old enough to remember Glenn Greenwald saying that anyone being investigated by the FBI should not be allowed to run for president.
I'm -really- looking forward to the mental gymnastics required for him to explain why that applied to Hillary but now Trump is immune."

"You see, Tucker, Trump has a penis and Hillary was a xhore with a vagina." - Glenn Greenwald

That’s a good plan. Lady G obviously went judge shopping and found one to do her bidding. These Republicans are too much.

Lady G will pro’lly come down with a case of the vapors when she gets indicted - the poor dear. Her 18 year old Rent Boy will need to comfort her on the fainting couch.

I think his vapors will be less "gas-like", and more "brick-like".

Agreed. Lindsey Graham needs to be held accountable for his part in trying to overturn an election. Else what the Republicans try to pull next time will be far worse.

I think it is a race, now, between the Jan 6 grand jury, the Georgia grand jury, and the Mar-a-Law-go grand jury to see who indicts first. Of course, Letitia James struck first with the NY lawsuit, but she's only tying up the money. Any dark horses I missed?

Don't forget

[*]Roger Stone: "F*** the voting, let's get to the violence!"

It was my first day back to work and I did not see/follow the hearings live.

The fact that Pelosi and Schumer tried to get help to the Capitol defeats the Trump/MAGAt narrative that Pelosi DID NOT do anything to help the situation by calling in the National Guard.

To the point where one more "exception" and suddenly your "rule" is no longer a rule anymore.
By the way, if enough state houses grant themselves the power to just overturn state vote tallies on a whim, there won't BE two major parties anymore.

I guess you're just focused on the horse race aspects of it and not the consequences of a series of failed constitutional crises.

So should I conclude you are OK with losing our Democracy to the fascist Trump gangsters. or did you think and continue to believe they are simply another brand of Republicans who are not out to damage Democracy?

Electorate not well informed? I use the word stupid.

None of the major issues matter if we lose our Democracy to fascist gangsterism.

I agree with you on DeSantis. He doesn’t have Trump’s baggage, DeSantis has a pleasant personality, he’s not an obnoxious, uncouth, rude oaf. He is Trump 2.0 but with much more charisma and charm. Smooth perhaps and most important, much more political savvy. If you go back through history, beginning with IKE, you’ll find independents voted for the more charismatic candidate or the down-home boy in Carter’s and G.W. Bush are examples of the down home boy. Bill Clinton, Obama, Reagan had charisma up the ying yang. They won twice. Gore and Kerry were statues. Dukakis looked like an idiot in that tank. Carter the down-home boy was defeated by the charismatic Reagan. The stoic Ford lost to down home Carter. McCain fell into that category vs. Obama Etc.

What are elections other than beauty contests, popularity contests? People who take avid stances on the issues are already Republicans and Democrats. It’s those who are not affiliated and less to non-partisans that hold the decisive vote. Their finicky and at time wishy washy. As Greger calls them, the unwashed couch potatoes. 43% of the electorate fall into the non-affiliated group usually called independents. They’re a plurality of the electorate. To win elections, one needs to recognize that fact and play to them, try to attract their vote instead of just concentrating on one’s base.

Talking midterms, independents gave the Republicans the congress in 1994, they gave congress back to the democrats in 2006. Then turned around and gave the GOP the house in 2010 and then the senate in 2014. In 2018, independents switched to voting democratic as the Democrats took back the house. This year if the polls are correct, independents are going to give the house back to the republicans and maybe the senate to boot. It’s possible. Although I think a 50-50 tie is more likely.

You don’t have to convince me Rick. It’s all of America you must convince. Come to think of it, you’re not going to convince Republicans, but independents are open. Only independents see inflation, a thinning to flat wallet as this nation’s most important problem today. I just point this out.

Clearly you have failed to comprehend anything I have typed.

So let's start with the definition from Cambridge: "showing poor judgment or little intelligence". The first thing you should notice is there is no reference to politics. Ignorance. Read my signature .... ignorance is the enemy. Yes people have a choice. They can remain ignorant i.e. show poor judgment, and therefore be stupid or they can educate themselves and elevate themselves from ignorance. Again notice nothing about my beliefs or politics.

So my stand by worn out claim is 60% of the electorate is stupid. Notice 60% is a far larger number than Trump's 30% - 45%, so it is not about who agrees with me, but who chooses to remain ignorant. Ignorance has no boundaries. It infects peoples of all criteria. It is democratic in that respect.

The second thing to note is people say things out of their ignorance. These folks are stupid. First for remaining ignorant and second for saying anything based on their ignorance.

Why do you never look at the crosstabs on the polling??? It's always the single bottom line result. It not worth anything unless you analyze the crosstabs. 70% of both D's and R's think the country is going in the wrong direction. How could that possibly be? Unless you look at the crosstabs and learn the reason are different for both groups. It's like the result 25% of each party thinks the other is destroying America. You think that is partisan whining. I say look at the reasons and learn Republicans think it's about policies, while Democrats think it's about actual destruction of Democratic institutions. We can disagree about policies but we can't disagree about the institutions upon which Democracy is founded.

You can stick your head in the sand and hope everything will be fine, or ensure Democracy is saved. You apparently believe this is all about policies. Nothing can be further from the truth. We are in a death match for the continuance of Democracy. Trumpists are banning books, burning books, writing legislation to disenfranchise people's rights, to disenfranchise voters, to stack election boards with people who are willing to ensure only Trumpists win elections, to call into question every democratic institution as unfaithful to Trump and therefore must be changed, etc.

While it may be true and valid there will be gridlock as never before seen in Washington, the real battle is in the states. If a significant number of states becomes more Trumpist, you can be assured only Trump loyalist Republicans can ever be elected or outright steal an election. The courts will become safe havens for Trump loyalists, morality police will become the norm, the FBI will be stacked with Trump loyalist who will be hell bent on revenge, etc. POlicy issues???? So should you type .... I never thought it could happen in America (how many times you gonna type that) .... remember you had a chance to analyze the events

The trial of the Oath Keepers is showing how the Oath Keepers, The Proud Boys, Trump’s Secret Service team, and Roger Stone back at the Willard hotel - the J6 command center - all communicated on J6 on Signal - an untraceable private message phone app. THAT is why the Secret Service phones were erased back to factory settings to rid the phones of the Signal application. The FBI has seized phones from other J6 participants like head Oath Keeper Stuart Rhodes who still had Signal in their phones that showed a chat group called FoS (Friends of Roger Stone) that included Roger Stone, Stewart Rhodes, Proud Boy leader Enrique Tarro, Trump’s Secret Service team head Anthony Ornato, and Alex Jones - yes THAT Alex Jones.

The J6 Committee has subpoenaed Trump to speak to them. The Subpoena requires Trump to turn over all Signal communications by November 4, 2022 and to speak to the Committee on or around November 14, 2022.

The subpoena mentions Signal at least 13 times - which strongly suggests that Trump was in direct communication with some of the coup plotters via the mobile app.

The Trump associates named in the subpoena include:

• Roger Stone
• Steve Bannon
• Mike Flynn
• Jeffrey Clark
• Sydney Powell
• Boris Epshteyn
• Christina Bobb
• John Eastman
• Rudy Guiliani
• Jenna Ellis
• Cleta Mitchell
• Patrick Bynre

The subpoena even asks him for communications involving the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, “or any other similar militia group or its members” from September 1, 2020 to the present.

So the J6 Committee can refer Trump's direct communications with militia groups and other J6 coup planners to the DoJ. Cool.

I'm sure everyone in the DoJ will be just as curious why Trump communicated on Signal - an untraceable phone app, and circumvented communicating out in the open as POTUS are required to do.

According to Democrats that's absolutely true.

According to Republicans, it's absolutely false.

According to independents..."Meh, they both suck."

They also seem to like complaining about how Congress can't get anything done while enabling candidates who take pride in preventing anything from getting done.

I heard a good quote tonight on PBS:

"People may not like a Party that doesn't know what they are doing, but that's a lot better than a Party that's lost their minds."

"I think, frankly, when a candidate screams vote fraud, it ought to be considered the equivalent of a concession speech," Sabato said.

https://www.rawstory.com/political-...al-for-evaluating-claims-of-voter-fraud/

I am going to be interested in somebody who makes a claim of fraud and then gets elected to be in charge. This person is now in charge. What if that person actually believes that to be true but is also is honest and finds no problem with an election. Do they then say it was and isn't any longer? Do they try and bring in so-called experts to find what he/she couldn't find?

I also suspect that there may have been some deniers that were elected before the last election. Haven't heard of any and, given the attendance of those with questions there have been few problems as far as I know. Wonder about that..............

I think what you mean is rational Republicans don't want to burn it down. They want to go back to the days when they apologized for their base by protecting and lying to them for whom and what they are ... anti-government bigots.

Ahhh .... those were the days my friend when Republicans could say the Democrats were abusing the race card .... now we know the truth

Agreed. Actions tells us the decency of an individual.

...and speaking of actions:

Agreed. However, the 2017 Republican tax cuts tells us everything we need to know about the Rs, and here's why: Eighty-seven percent of the 2017 tax cut went to the top 1% with thirteen percent going to 331M Americans to split.

Secondly, the 2017 tax cuts sunsets for everyone who is not a 1% in 2024. The 2017 Republican tax cut NEVER sunsets for the 1%.

Third, the 2017 favored "carry-overs' for the 1% in perpetuity. Prior to the 2017 Republican tax cut, carry-overs ended after seven years. A carry-over is provision that allows a taxpayer to move a tax loss to future years to offset a profit. (Golly! Who do you think THAT was for? If you guessed Trump - you'd be correct)

For the layperson to think that the Rs are on their side, they need a heavy dose of reality.

Here's the thing - a woman never knows when she'll be a victim of sexual assault. Be prepared is a good motto.

A CNN exit poll from the midterms showed that abortion was number two following inflation as number one.

How can he claim he didn't tell Cassidy that story if he can't remember? Seems this past Summer, Tony was going to counter what Cassidy said - now he can't remember?

Sounds like a dirty, filthy liar to me.

Droll, Jeff, very droll.

Trump and the GOP had help in all levels of government on J6.

Why didn't the federal police and military sound the alarm when they knew in advance that an armed mob was coming to the Capitol to try to overthrow our government, and that many within the mob were armed and willing to kill (and did) to try to accomplish their goal? The armed mob posted about it in the open on social media.

Why did the Secret Service and the Department of Defense wipe their phones so the data could never be retrieved?

Republican Ron Paul's former staffer Elmer Stewart Rhodes, leader of the Oathkeepers, should not be the only one convicted of seditious conspiracy.

This should come as NO surprise whatsoever because that is precisely the kind of "work" that was being done BY folks like Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon and their sycophants. Despite the two not getting along, the fact is, they both were in charge of supervising a significant amount of the massacres that retooled the approach TAKEN BY these branches.

They did not directly do the legwork, no...but they laid out how to go about it.
Christopher Miller, Trump's handpicked ACTING SecDef, penned a stand-down order for all DoD personnel, specifically in regards to J6.

Anthony Ornato in rebuttal to Cassidy Hutchinson stated he did not tell her that story about Trump. Now he claims he can't remember what he said. So I guess memory is one of those things you can recall under subpoena only when it is convenient .... good to know

these MAGA characters are slugs

Just read this and wanted to share

I suspect even as a prisoner he continues to be a clear and present danger to Democracy. His ideas and following with continue their campaign against Democracy.

I think when they bill themselves as "Law and Order" what they really mean is "we're a Law unto ourselves and we will Order you about."