Capitol Hill Blue Forums Thread Like Summary - Jack Smith, Special Counsel

I wanted to start a thread to discuss the various goings-on in the Special Counsel arena.

Background: On Nov. 16, AG Garland appointed Jack Smith Special Counsel to investigate the Jan. 6 insurrection and the theft of government property found at Mar-A-Lago. In New Special Counsel, a Prosecutor Schooled in Corruption Cases (NYT, subscription) "Mr. Smith appears as prepared for the task as anyone could be, those who know him say: He has been prosecuting criminal cases, including politically charged corruption investigations involving public officials, for nearly 30 years."

Since then, he has occasionally made headlines for his actions, rather than pronouncement. His team has sent subpoenas to election officials in states Trump disputed; won dismissal of the special master in the document probe; and has now sought contempt proceedings against Trump and his lawyers in the obstruction inquiry.

I think he's on the right path, and is moving quickly.

simply amazing

This is a kin to you being the videographer of a crime being asked what happened and you saying I can't make a statement as it would tend to make me a partisan either against the perpetrator or the victim.

Ask yourself the question with all the evidence presented by J6C, what would be the rebuttal which would mitigate or exonerate the conspirators of a plot to overthrow the government??? Their "justification" or "rationale" was and remains the election was stolen. I suppose somewhere in the law there is a corollary which states when someone believes an election was stolen it is justifiable to overthrow the government. It's not partisan to want to examine the "evidence" of a "stolen" election. So when all evidence is carefully put under a microscope what was found is the only explanation for their belief is space aliens not only doctored ballots but used space alien mind tricks on the examiners to convince them Pres Biden won the election. The evidence of the fraud is still there only no one but space aliens can see it. Everyone else just has to believe it as an act of faith Trump, being the savior of America, actually won.

So how is that partisan??? It would be the same as saying mathematics is a liberal partisan science.

I don't know if there is enough evidence which would implicate Trump in the plot to overthrow the government, but there appears to be a significant amount of evidence which does implicate a number of Trump's closest allies in a conspiracy to overthrow the government i.e. emails, the public statements from Navarro and Epshteyn, and of course the blanket use of the 5th by all the rest when asked their name. I as a non-partisan in pursuit of the perpetrators of the J6 coup attempt, have to ask the question was Trump involved, as he was surrounded by a conspiracy. Trump as a narcissist is of course delusional. In his delusion he may not have known or understood what these people were doing. Clearly from his own statements he takes no responsibility for anything except for his pursuit of eliciting praise from his supporters.

So what is amazing is a non-partisan whom I suppose believes that Democracy is worth preserving (maybe I'm wrong, it may partisan to want to preserve Democracy) witnessed the only assault on Democracy since it's inception and your position is, it would partisan to have an opinion. I would have a similar amazement if my 13 Revolutionary War ancestors took that position and if any one had said It would be partisan of me to side with either the British or the upstart Americans.

Thanks for your participation in the great experiment of American Democracy, and remember it is only partisans of the Constitution who have preserved this dream.

There is. Trump himself called up Republican officials in several states to urge them to participate in the fake elector scheme. He told the security people at the Ellipse to turn off the magnetometers that were not allowing armed attendees in to hear his riot incitement, because he wanted them armed. He told them directly to march down to the Capital and fight. I don't think anyone honestly can say that meant he wanted them to go down there and hold a peaceful protest. And then he watched it on TV for hours without doing his duty to stop it. The evidence is overwhelming.

A whole lot of US citizens in office, law enforcement, and the armed forces took oaths to defend the constitution. Not one of them took oaths to defend Donald Trump. So when those folks still support Trump after he proposes suspending the constitution, I think that fits the definition of treason. This is clearly well beyond partisanship. If defending the constitution is Democratic and suspending the constitution is Republican, then the Republican Party is no longer a legitimate political party.

I don't think so. I think his flabby tit is going to be in a ringer.

There are so many legal issues headed into courts, and in some places where juries are unsympathetic. If even one of the criminal counts sticks, some of those are bad enough to send him to prison for the rest of his life. Which might not be very long it looks like. Can you imagine Trump being confined in such a way that he can't grift anybody? He might even kill himself under those conditions.

I think the more interesting thing now is what Smith does with the 34 members of congress who conspired with Trump. Amendment 14 says they are disqualified from ever running or holding office. Does he uphold that constitutional amendment? Seems to me to be the kind of guy who would. The result will shock the hell out of some people, but I think it would send an important message to all future politicians: Attempt a coup, and you are finished.

Utter fantasy! She's ignoring Title 18 US Code 2383 Rebellion or insurrection, which disqualifies anyone who took part or gave aid or comfort to insurrectionists from holding ANY office. So there is already an actual federal law that makes the 14th amendment provisions a crime. But maybe her loophole is she specifically mentioned the congress' referred crimes. Those are merely suggestions to the DOJ. Smith is going to charge Trump with the crimes they have evidence for, and I'm pretty sure he's going to include Title 18 US Code 2383 just to put an end to this BS.

I think her premise has as much validity as John Eastman's drivel about having "alternate electors". But of course as a Democrat, I would love Trump to run in 2024: That would split the Republican vote enough to give Democrats enough members in congress to impeach Supreme Court justices for perjury.

I don't think that's true at all. I would say the Republican Party works for the benefit of about 2% of the population, while the Democratic Party works for the benefit of about 98% of the population. Lots of the things Democrats work for benefit almost everybody, or even 100% on some issues.

For example, Covid measures: Trying to minimize the number of Covid deaths by lockdowns, masking, vaccination programs, etc. benefit Independents and Republicans just as much as Democrats. Tax provisions to lower economic inequality benefit people all across the political spectrum, by stimulating the economy. Making health care universal does too: Republicans are not magically immune to infectious diseases running rampant in the population.

This is the result of Democrats in all branches of the government looking for solutions to real problems that work and are fair. Republicans instead use "problems" that don't exist or are of their own making to manipulate voters, in order to consolidate their power.

The prosecution of Donald Trump is going to be very easy, because of a very recent revelation: Cassidy Hutchinson and several other witnesses have testified to the Jan 6th committee about witness intimidation they suffered. That is a very important aspect of the Obstruction charge, because witness tampering shows "mens rea". (literal translation: guilty mind)

Most of the other crimes Trump et al can be charged with require criminal intent, and witness tampering does that in spades. It's just about as good as trying to have a witness killed before the trial. And it has the added benefit that the witness can appear in court to testify about it, which is difficult if they are dead. In particular, this tampering of Ms. Hutchinson was delivered by the lawyer Trump paid to defend her, so it's especially heinous: He will be disbarred and go to prison for years. His sentence will only be reduced if he names Trump, Meadows, etc. as his coconspirators. Like 5 years instead of 10. Strong motivation.

I think Steve Mnuchin, former Treasury Secretary, is going to end up in prison as well. He not only refused to follow the law and turn over Trump's tax returns to congress, but apparently he secretly had the IRS halt all audits of Trump while he was in office. Mens rea again: That demonstrates criminal intent.

Remember all the times Trump said he would release his taxes, but couldn't because he was being audited? Turns out he was lying about that, in addition to every other thing he claimed. Should anybody be surprised?

Pondering, I have no doubt that those on the left view it exactly as you describe. I’m sure those on the right view their party in the same way. But what of America as a whole? Most Americans view the two major parties unfavorably. 56% have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party, 60% of the Republican Party. These figures are very dynamic and change constantly, so this gives you just for today as tomorrow they’ll change. What this tells me is neither party is like much outside of their base of support. Today the Democratic Party is disliked a bit less than the Republican Party.

You have 56% of all Americans wanting a viable third party as they’re tired of having to choose between the hard left and the hard right. This is a fact neither major party can fathom. Why neither is loved. Which shows in the rise of independents from 30% in 2006 to 43% today as the two major parties continue to shrink. The anti-voter reigns supreme here, today. Those who vote against a candidate or party, not for the other party or candidate, but against. Who that other candidate or party is is irrelevant as long as the candidate or party they’re voting against loses. If our two major parties didn’t have their monopoly on our election system, if we didn’t have our 2-party system, more like every other modern democracy with multi-parties, our two major parties would be huge losers. But neither major party wants to hear this and I’m sure you don’t either.

P does not respond to anything but recitations of polls. The polls on whether anyone is has a response to either is a divided 50-50, where one side believes it is significant and the other believes it is a nothing-burger. Based on that P would probably say since it is evenly divided it means there is nothing to see here, since the polling responses are partisan and not based on reality.

While P believed it was inconceivable that anyone would try to overthrow the government ... in America no less ... I was typing furiously alerting people to the very real possibility it was well within a narcissists purview to do just that. Even now as testimony is revealed it seems almost like a work of fiction by some demented mind the lengths Trump went to try and overthrow the government.

Nothing to see here????? .... I guess P would have said in 1865 .... that was a nothing-burger .... just partisans squabbling.

The conspiracy to overthrow the government will go down in history as one of the most significant events in American history, except in Florida where any mention will be deleted by Gov De Santos

let's see ... if I recollect, you said he wouldn't run in 2024. If you're reading polling tea leaves ... get a new manual. I didn't rely on polling. I talked to MAGA-heads. Trump is still their voice and by extension their savior.

The problem with your conclusion is Trump is the only person who has control of THE BASE i.e. MAGA-heads. When Republicans finally wake up and realize no one can win nomination without THE BASE, they will once again board the train to nowhere, otherwise known as the Trump Train.

This is weird.

Conservatives must live in an alternate universe. The only reason I have engaged with you is to get your opinions ... not the results of polling. I can read the polls. I understand the mathematics of polling. I don't care what the polling says, but I do care what you think. When I ask a question like, do you think what happened on Jan 6 was an insurrection, I don't want a poll which says half the country believes it was not and half believes it was .... I want your opinion. Does Jan 5 qualify for the definition of an insurrection??? If it doesn't please tell me why not. The question is what on outside observer would ask, not a partisan.

Maybe I am not using the right words.

We know how to deal with mobsters, so we need to be doing more of that, not standing on ceremony and technicalities. Mobsters are particularly adept at exploiting these weak spots.

Sorry, but they only understand one thing, a bigger mobster.

There are polling aggregators which do that and they provide commentary as a bonus. I much rather believe you rationalize your insistence on non-partisanship by appealing to the polls as your guide. Don't get me wrong. I believe you really really believe you are trying to be non-partisan, but I also believe you have completely side stepped any substantive issue with your rationalization.

Since we are in a highly partisan polarized political bubble, all polling will result in diametrically divided data. You can conveniently claim everything is partisan therefore you don't care. But that is not the reality. Just because half of the country believes an insurrection was not an attempt to overthrow a duly elected government does not imply you can not have an opinion on the event.

While the event itself was perpetrated by partisans, the event was a non-partisan attack on Democracy. You can certainly have an opinion whether the organizers and participants should be prosecuted. This is how non-partisan I am. If Sec Clinton has organized an assault on the Capitol in an attempt to keep Trump from occupying the WH, I would have been first in line calling for her detainment, indictment, and conviction for even thinking of overturning an election.

Its not about partisanship. It is about America as a whole. And that is precisely what you have claimed ... keeping track of America as a whole. That any of the participants were politicians of any political party is beside the point. They broke the law. They broke the sacred trust the Citizens of the country have bestowed on them to uphold the law as outlined by the Constitution.

Don't claim partisanship when American Democracy is under assault .... The Constitution does not recognize your protests of non-partisanship.

My God man!!!!!

This is not a partisan issue. Every Democracy loving American should want justice for an attack on our country, but you drone on and on about partisanship. Politicians committing crimes does not make their prosecution a partisan witch hunt. No person is above the law, unless you believe that is a partisan statement.

I suspect the notion no one is above the law is a concept which eludes your comprehension. You have in essence become complicit in the Republican defense that the people involved in Jan 6 were simply tourists and are now political prisoners. In your pursuit of non-partisanship you have become a partisan.

Let me know if I am a partisan .... I don't care if they are left wing, right wing or chicken wing .... if a politician breaks the law, they should be prosecuted just as any other citizen would be.

I dunno know .... it befuddles me that anyone would look the other way when someone tries to overthrow the government.

I am looking forward to the indictments.

Although Smith will want to nail down testimony from witnesses before his own grand jury, the Dominion case, the Georgia Special Grand Jury, the January 6 materials, and the New York investigations are going to provide very useful material for cross-examination, to keep witnesses honest (or be prosecuted for perjury), and to outline their potential cases.

The amount of publicly available material is enormous, and the leaks from courts are all indications that Smith is working quickly, broadly, and with urgency. I think we may have indictments - including Trump's - before Summer gets warm.

Watch Sen Cruz ask the question why nominee thought Fox News was a propaganda arm of the Trump administration, All one should have said was ... read court filings from Dominion lawsuit, which makes it clear Fox News was indeed a public propagandist for Trump. I have racked my wee small brain for evidence the same could be said of other media sources for the Biden administration but come up without any clear evidence. While one could look at MSNBC or CNN as propagandists, I think when one reflects that they are more exposing what Trump and et al did rather than promote any agenda from the Biden administration, it becomes clear they are not propagandists. This can not be said of Fox News and for that matter such networks as Newsmax and OAN.

Just read interesting interview of foreperson of GA grand jury looking into Trump election influence in GA. Appears a number of people with knowledge of the events pleaded the 5th on many questions. Others got immunity and testified.

I tried reading the tea leaves and all I got was tea. I can't speculate but one thing is for sure ... for sure ... Trump's phone call may be enough evidence to apply the GA election laws to indict.

I think the more interesting thing is the Grand Jury report said they belive several witnesses committed perjury, and they recommended such charges be filed. That would be quite significant, since members of a certain Party seem to have taken up lying wholesale. I think a lesson needs to be taught here: Lying is a fun hobby, but you do it in court or a deposition and you go to jail, directly to jail, and no $200.