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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,125 Likes: 250
It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
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OP
It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,125 Likes: 250 |
It's time for the First Annual Reader Rant "Name That Libertarian Country" Contest.
Participants are invited to list the names of countries past or present which fit the ideal definition of "libertarian".
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Dec 2005
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"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Joined: Aug 2008
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' Well, I doubt that there has ever been a real libertarian society --- except, perhaps, on some South Pacific islands. I think I would prefer the ones that did not practise cannibalism. But some societies have gotten closer to the ideal than others. Perhaps Somalia and Uganda during certain periods of recent history, parts of Germany during the Thirty Years' War, much of rural France during the French Revolution, lots of the western United States during its romantic period of early settlement -- and so forth! · · · 
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Joined: Aug 2008
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' Oops, Ardy! Our postings must have gotten crossed in transmission! Just goes to show that great minds think alike. · · · 
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
Somalia? Wrong. Libertarianism requires that, while individual freedoms are important, the rights of others must be respected as well.
Much like our own guidelines here.
Somalian, Ugandan, and American "frontier justice" are examples of anarchism and true lawlessness where the natural rights of individuals are trampled by stronger or better armed individuals. In a truly Libertarian society punishments for infringemnt on others rights would be swift and sure.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Deadwood, Dakota territory, during the late 1800's.
“If you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinskey
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Dec 2005
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In a truly Libertarian society punishments for infringemnt on others rights would be swift and sure. And who would do that... the defended government, or the judges with a bias to do nothing? Are there examples of libertarian judges, or law enforcement? And is there a good reason to believe that the powerful might not wield a powerful legal team against the weak? Suppose a poor person's rights are trampled by a rich person.... how may the poor person stand with equal footing in court when he arrives essentially unarmed? In Somalia, powerful people come armed with weapons. In this country, they come armed with lawyers. I see no evidence that a libertarian philosophy can bring justice to either circumstance.
Last edited by Ardy; 01/01/12 07:19 AM.
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2008
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' In a truly Libertarian society punishments for infringemnt on others rights would be swift and sure. · · ·
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,125 Likes: 250
It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
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OP
It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,125 Likes: 250 |
I'll even modify the rules to accept "countries which were SUPPOSED to be libertarian, as idealized specifically by their founders".
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,004
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2004
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Here's an interesting piece which you might find interesting. It begins: INTRODUCTION
Many USENET readers encounter libertarianism for the first time on USENET. Such unfamiliar claims might be quite difficult to judge if we haven't had the time to think of reasons why the claims might be false. This FAQ is intended to review a few common libertarian claims that seem wrong to newcomers, and present some arguments in opposition that show their shortcomings.
ABOUT THIS FAQ
The purpose of this FAQ is not to attack libertarianism, but some of the more fallacious arguments within it. That done, libertarians can then reformulate or reject these arguments. This is also needed to help people place libertarianism and its arguments in context. It is very hard to find any literature about libertarianism that was NOT written by its advocates. This isolation from normal political discourse makes it difficult to evaluate libertarian claims without much more research or analysis than most of us have time for. Compare this to (for example) the extensive literature of socialism and communism written by ideologues, scholars, pundits, etc. on all sides. Libertarianism is scantily analyzed outside its own movement. Let's fix that.
This particular FAQ is mostly a personal view of libertarianism. It is impossible to have an objective view of something like libertarianism, and it would be a mistake to presume this FAQ is. (Or that the FAQs written by proponents are.) It is also impossible for this FAQ to represent all the opposing positions to libertarianism, though I hope to see many future contributions from others. One notable failing (common to many libertarians as well) is that this FAQ is rather US-centric. All statements in this FAQ can be argued further by both sides, and indeed most have in several answers to this FAQ, available at the Critiques website. However, feel free to save a copy of this FAQ and cite from it. It may not be ultimate truth, but it can be a starting point for answers to libertarianism.
The editor and primary author, Mike Huben , has 20 years experience in debate over electronic networks. Much of that has been with religious believers and creationists, and this colors some of the arguments and examples. No judgement or personal offense is intended, though there is a substantial amount of ridicule of arguments (based in large part on my belief that it is the most effective antidote to pompous argument.) I welcome recommendations for alleviating offense while retaining the sense and humor of the arguments.
This FAQ is an unfinished work. Vast sections have yet to be created: as in talk.origins, we might expect perhaps 20 FAQs to eventually result. Only the first major section (Evangelism) has been written and included here. This FAQ is written in HTML, then converted to plain text for posting.
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