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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
Who was it that advocated for UBI back in the 1960's?
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178 |
Oh, oh, Pick me! Pick me!
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128
veteran
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128 |
I am reading "Surviving the Future", a book about alternatives to the capitalist economic system. Some discussion is about "slack" and "tautness" in the economy. In capitalism, tautness is the holy grail, where every resource and every minute is used to make more money. Slack is viewed as anathema, to be avoided at all costs, as being "unproductive". In a triple-bottom-line model it is slack that is "productive" for the social and environmental sectors. Somehow, leisure, one form of slack, is promised as a reward of taut capitalism. It's offered up in much the same way as heaven, or 70 virgins, or your own planet is dangled carrot wise by certain religions as a reward for strict obedience to the cult.
Here is an interesting quote by a writer in the Democratic Review in 1853 regarding the day when the industrial revolution would make labor unnecessary; "Men and women will then have no harassing cares or laborious duties to fulfill. Machinery will perform all work - automata will direct them. The only task of the human race will be to make love, study, and be happy."
Apparently, capitalism is supposed to lead to luxurious socialism. Are we almost there, yet?
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 729 Likes: 3
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 729 Likes: 3 |
Oh, oh, Pick me! Pick me! Spring Butt (think a young Hermine Granger)  
Last edited by Ujest Shurly; 01/07/17 05:03 PM.
Vote 2022!
Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.
Now, get off my grass!
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
Are we almost there, yet? I don't know about you, but I am feeling pretty slack since I retired in June.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,875 Likes: 80
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,875 Likes: 80 |
...Before any of the above happens, of course, we are going to have to work through the dealing with our incredibly greedy, incompetent, self serving elected class which, I fear, is going to take a LONG time, effort and pain. Well said. I would add that we have a culture, based on capitalism, that needs to be changed. We won't get the right kind of politicians until that happens. The basic problem is simple greed, not capitalism. I can remember a time when corporation ceo folk only made 2 or 3 times what those they hired made, now they make 200 to 300 times more. This has been a problem for a very long time. I believe the standard is set by our elected class and that class is elected by US! I am not sure how to change this as I believe that our culture is now based on pure, unadulterated greed, and that never used to be the case and the greedy eventually fell from grace. Now they are not. The Obama administration has made it very clear that if you break the law, and you have the big bucks then they get to pay a fine instead. This is a TERRIBLE plan and when our government catches the malefactor they are fined which makes their activities subject to just another cost of doing business. This is not capitalism but something else entirely. it used to be that the bad guys got to do time - no longer. I doubt that it would ever happen but, I wonder when the last time was when a voter asked one of their elected whether rich criminals should goto prison. If they get a positive answer then the next thing to do is ask how much time he/she has spent making sure that ALL criminals get to goto jail. Bank of America was fined when they were caught counterfeiting documents so they could foreclose houses (I think Trump may have nominated the guy in charge of that one to take over treasury). HSBC was caught laundering over 300 BILLION in drug money. Freely admitted it and was fined. (there are a LOT of these! I think my point is that WE are doing an incredibly bad job of electing our elected class. They are returning the favor by screwing us ALL over, bigtime. Just a thought...........
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
Brave New World? Basic Income
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,388
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,388 |
So greed is inherent in human nature? You should convince the rest of the anthropological world of that. It'll be news to them.
Capitalism breeds greed. So the problem is?
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce
"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128
veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128 |
That is the essentially contention of the author of Surviving the Future - capitalism is a system that promotes the accumulation of money, which easy corrodes to greed.
One way of attributing our current economic woes is the rapidly worsening wealth gap. besides, capitalism does not have columns for entries in the account book for anything but money. Everything else is marginalized, i.e. "slackness".
jgw's slackness from retiring, aka having acquired enough capital to retire, is an escape from participatory capitalism (the American Dream?).
Isn't that interesting - the idea that the American Dream is to escape the capitalist system!
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
The rich get away with everything: Like Martha Stewart and Congressman Randy Cunningham? Not all of them do...
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