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Putin’s war on Ukrainian power grid reveals more than he’d like (The Hill)

"On Oct. 10, Putin started a campaign against the Ukrainian power grid. He launched about $5 billion worth of long-range missiles in several strikes numbering 70-100 missiles each and managed to leave parts of Ukraine without power for several hours and sometimes even days.

His attack is a failure and testifies not to the might of the Russian military machine, but rather to Putin’s inadequacy as a military planner."

That's just the start.

"It's worth recalling that Putin attacked civilian targets in Ukraine from the start; he carpet-bombed Mariupol to the ground.

So why did he switch from relatively cheap carpet bombing to expensive multimillion dollar missiles? Because of air defense. His bombers nowadays will be shot down. It’s as simple as that. So, he uses missiles, many of which are also shot down — and increasingly so, thanks to new Western deliveries. The Ukrainian military shot down over 85 percent of the Russian missiles (60 out of 70) in the attack of Dec. 5.

“You have to be insane to spend expensive missiles in such a way on an adversary with intact air defense system,” says Alexei Arestovich, 47, military expert and the advisor to the office of President Zelensky.

If Putin is restricted to missiles, then why not target something military? It would appear the Russian army simply isn’t any good at finding military targets, which have a nasty habit of moving around and getting camouflaged. The whereabouts of a power grid can be Google-mapped."


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Couple of points on this worth ‘recalling’:

Wasn’t the ‘carpet bombing’ of Mariupol instead a bombing of the Azovstal steel plant where the Azov ‘freedom fighters’ (and in no way fascists like past freedom fighters the US supported) holed up in? I don’t recall seeing the city ‘carpet bombed’ like a vietnam USAF strike or similar.

Ukraine’s power grid is unique being 330v 3 phase, built out during Soviet times. It’s hardwired and the major parts of its infrastructure gets made in… you guessed it… Russia. It’s trains engines are primarily electric 330v. Moving western wunderwaffen to the front lines, mostly from the Polish border, gets much harder without trains. Our lightweight artillery, likewise, has to be hauled back for periodic repairs. As warfare goes, crippling your enemies ability to mobilize and resupply seems competent. I’m surprised the author never mentions these obvious issues. Seems to be bundling straw instead.

Putin is the PMC’s Emanuel Goldstein but, despite all the shrieking from that camp, he doesn’t plan the war. He has a war department tasked with that responsibility like any other country in its league. You think our addled President is planning our illiberal proxy war with Russia? I understand the propaganda value of having an Emanuel Goldstein so indulge away… it works.

Ukie AA effectiveness is grossly exaggerated in NATOstan ministries of truths. A missile is a lot cheaper than a fighter bomber and pilot. Much like being ‘greeted as liberators’ this guys observations and conclusion accuracy will be revealed with time.

Sorta like:
Russia’s military is breaking down.
Mass Russian desertions
Putin’s got cancer
The Russian economy is imploding
Russian army running out of ammo, tanks, missiles, microchips, etc


I’ve never seen so much liberated territory done with such numeric inferiority, inflicting kill ratios similar as the US inflicted in Vietnam, at the outset, get labeled ‘losing’.

But this proxy war will ripple for decades and no ones s winner. Except the MIC and some vested interests.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 12/15/22 02:35 AM.
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Here's the interesting thing about voltages...transformers make it possible to step voltage up or down.
I'd be very interested in knowing where you got the voltage specs for Ukraine because my search says it's
not 330/3 phase at all but instead 380 volts three phase and when you insert a Y connected transformer secondary, where the center of the Y is grounded and brought out as a neutral conductor, it will supply 219.4 volts single phase between each phase and neutral.

219.4 IS in fact 220 volts, which is the standard for most of the world.

It's even the standard here in the USA but the difference is, over here we split it into two legs of 110 each with a neutral in the center so one leg plus the neutral gives us the 110 volts WE use instead.
Leave the neutral out and connect the red and black and you get the 220 instead.

Trust me, whatever voltage is needed, there's transformers for it.
Not only that but even if it IS 330 volts, guess what, a 380 volt supply will be just fine.
By the way, you didn't specify if we're talking about direct current or alternating current applications at the end use point. Generally speaking if it's actually 380 that's specific to most 50 Hz AC systems whereas for 60 Hz it's listed as either 400 or 440 volts if it's three phase.
Power grids are not limited to 3-phase only by the way, homes and small businesses have zero use for any kind of three-phase power, that's something needed by large factories or, as you mentioned, trains.

Are you sure you want to argue electric specs?
[Linked Image from ukrenergoexport.com]

PS:
It's funny that you seem to believe the Azovstal plant would have been spared if the fighters were ordinary run of the mill UKR military, or so it seems from your psychobabble about Nazis.
Yeah sure, they would have overlooked the steel plant full of soldiers if they had the correct imprimatur.


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Sorry. Your correct. 330kv is the right voltage. The transformers are massive, weighing over a hundred tons iirc, and take several months to build.

I guess we will see how long it will take for what looks to be a rump state of the future Ukraine to switch over to the European standard if they decide to go that route and Eu can afford it.
Needless to say, from my reading, switching out to EU whathaveya from the current infrastructure set up will be massive as their grid is built to a Soviet spec and not an EU one.

Here’s what an official from the Ukraine Energy Research Center had to say about the how ‘fine’ it’s going to be finding replacement parts:

“We are engaged in an active dialogue with European power engineers in all areas: both with manufacturers of relevant equipment, and with operator companies that may have certain provisions at times. Not all equipment has reserves, and many items are custom-built. This is a long process: it takes from six months to a year and a half to produce certain cutting-edge transformers,” Oleksandr Kharchenko said.
UKRAINE IS LOOKING FOR EQUIPMENT FR... TRANSFORMERS MAY TAKE A YEAR AND A HALF

Maybe Jeff can get in touch this this person and explain to him how fairly simple it will be to reconnect Ukraines distribution grid. Load balancing may be tricky but what do I know. Maybe there’s some easy way as he’s suggesting. I’m not so sure. Time will tell.

Point being, destroying your enemies ability to wage war is fairly well known to most military planners. This author is pulling conclusions out of his butt in order to keep the narrative war on the public going.

Their trains have a different rail guage to IIRC. The transformers powering the rail grid have been targeted too.

‘ PS:
It's funny that you seem to believe the Azovstal plant would have been spared if the fighters were ordinary run of the mill UKR military, or so it seems from your psychobabble about Nazis.
Yeah sure, they would have overlooked the steel plant full of soldiers if they had the correct imprimatur.’

The fact that the Azov battalion was made a priority target by the Russian and breakaway republics forces in the initial weeks of the war suggest it’s importance to those forces to eliminate that battalion. Perhaps the city itself had strategic value?
The Azovs being neonazi may have been ancillary or not. I’m not informed by the Russian military planners personally. I do know propaganda though. NWP has traffics in it for some time here, imo. Carpet Bomb.. gimme a break.

S’funny Jeff, how you get all tummy upset and want to puke when you see a Nazi tattoo at a gas hole but are quite comfortable denying Nazis existing elsewhere. How..odd…

Last edited by chunkstyle; 12/15/22 02:05 PM.
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Oh, so you're saying War Is Hell and sometimes it lasts a little while?


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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Oh, so you're saying War Is Hell and sometimes it lasts a little while?

Did I?

I said exactly what I said.

I’ve said in the past here the biggest danger is getting onto the escalation ladder with a nuclear armed adversary. Not a good idea.

This seems to be what we’re on though with you and the rest of the chicken hawks cheering it on.

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Last edited by chunkstyle; 12/16/22 12:36 AM.
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Originally Posted by chunkstyle
Their trains have a different rail guage to IIRC. The transformers powering the rail grid have been targeted too.

Since 2019 Ukraine has been creating dual gauge tracks for that reason.

Those goddamn Dems and liberals, they're simply EVERYWHERE trying to undermine Hero Putin!


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Fun fact:

The B-faction of the OUN (Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists), actually opposed the forming of the 14th Waffen SS Grenadier Division (of Ukrainian volunteers). The B in fact stands for "Bandera" whose faction actually fought inside the German Wehrmacht rather than in any SS-unit.

That's because any division outside of the control of the OUN-B would be totally controlled by the German High Command instead.

With regard to the UKR Supreme Court ruling on symbols, this:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

is nothing more than a variation of the Ruthenian (Ukrainian) lion from the 14th century.

That's a pretty big stretch to compare it to symbols like these:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted by chunkstyle
Their trains have a different rail guage to IIRC. The transformers powering the rail grid have been targeted too.

Since 2019 Ukraine has been creating dual gauge tracks for that reason.

Those goddamn Dems and liberals, they're simply EVERYWHERE trying to undermine Hero Putin!

Believe our fairy tales or your a Putin lover!! - bout sums your russia
Gating fascist denying posts

Last edited by chunkstyle; 12/26/22 07:07 PM.
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