Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Foreign Policy & News OBL Video tape

As it should be Jeff.

Failure on your part to identify any extremists right-wing blogs while easily identifying what you consider extremist left-wing blogs speaks volumes.


Sorry you may consider it rhetorical because you don't want to answer but I fully expected an answer. The only "real" reason one would not answer is the contents of that answer.


How about humanitarian reasons. Did you miss that one or is that too rhetorical for you?


well I have to guess you refer to Israel and yes certainly Palestine does have a right to question the entire process as Israel unilaterally declared itself sovereign from within a geographical territory composed of Muslims/Jews/Arabs/foreigners.

None.

So what seems to be so difficult for you to answer a simple question?

We were warned and warned about having our troops on Islamic holy ground.

What if a Muslim Army set up on the Mexican border? Would we send a warning to their head honcho to get off Mexico's land? 20 years later they were still there interfering with our commerce and continuing to threaten our border? Of course we would attack them but we seem to have the arrogance that our troops are to be allowed everywhere on the planet.

Jeff hit it correctly. Oil is dirty business and whether a Republi9can or Democrat is in the white house is not the argument unless this forum has fallen into a level of first grade fighting.

Bush not only was warned that American would be attacked but he never gave any thought to how the terrorist would trigger actions all over Europe. This whole incredible action of Bush's could end up killing a million innocent people and it will be done as an American action.

The only way out of this mess is to impeach the sonofabitch immediately and throw his rotten ass back to Texas as fast as possible and pull out troops out of the Middle East and maybe the Al Qaeda will not attack us or maybe they will and we will be forced into an all out war with Islam. But for us to sit on our hands and do nothing is an open invitation for the world to send what missiles and planes to America.

One more debate among the imbeciles of the GOP will only show Al Qaeda what total asses we are. I cannot see how any American can even consider the fools who act like 5th grade idiots.

Bush is itching for another attack! It is the only way to save his sorry legacy. Imperial Hubris made so much sense to me in 2004 and I know it hit the top 10 New YOrk Times list but I cannot find anyone who ever read it. He was in Afghanistan for years and listened to the leaders of the Taliban who warned over and over to have Ame4rica remove their troops off the holy land. The Taliban was ignored by Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43 so what the hell was so shocking about 9/11? Not a single action was taken against the attack and it was simply assumed that the White House knew it was coming.

Our only hope is to dump Bush quickly and bring this horror to a close. Bring our troops home to heal with dignity and put them on alert that we may be hit again and again.

We must firm up our reasons for ever going into another nation with force and let the rest of the world know we have to renew our American values, pay off our debts, bring home our corporations and close our borders for a certain length of time until we can rebuild our laws. It is time to educate our next generations to recognize our freedoms and our individuality.

We're going down the tubes and we need to straighten up and stop worrying about social issues and concentrate of strong values.

Don't put political labels on our statements. It is simply a cheap way to end a debate. Our nation is on the brink of destruction and we do not need another level of labels.

Just a general comment...
We observe the gibberish of OBL's message, and wonder how so many could be swept up in that to the point of even becoming suicide bombers.

We should also look objectively at our own culture to see if there are any parallels. If you listen to Bush speak, one has to admit there is a lot of gibberish... that is liberally sprinkled with buzz word that get people going... God, America, Liberty, Taxes, WMD, Mushroom cloud, etc. The rhetoric ot talk radio is largely gibberish. The rhetoric of televangelists is largely gibberish.

And from all of that gibberish we have had broad public support for the Iraq war. We have had lots of people willing to go over there and "die for our country". We have had our own people bombing the federal building in Oklahoma city, and bombing the Olympics, and bombing abortion clinics. You have Christian military camps preparing children to be warriors for god. And all of this happening in a modern and sophisticated country.

Is it any wonder that extremism could motivate some people in less sophisticated countries?

And in all of that, consider what it is that gets people in line with this extremism. There is almost always some very charged issue that gets people going. Gay Marriage, killing fetuses. taking god out of society, what ever. And in the same way, there are certain issues that people in the middle east respond strongly to. These issues are like fertilizer for extremism. And unfortunately... up to this point... people in our nation could not address these issues without being labelled as traitors, or stooges of OBL.

You're dang straight! Those are great questions, questions that ought to be asked every day, and questions whose answers we ought to actively seek, and then act accordingly.

Those are the kind of questions we hear discussed in the United Nations, and that's why we ought to support it instead of roadblocking it. Because then the opinions that matter would be heard loudly, and the unimportant ones, like those of Oh Someone's Been Missing, would make page sixteen of section two and ten seconds at the bottom of the newshour.

I'll see your general comment and raise you one (or two), Ardy. How much credit does OBL deserve for the suicide bombers in Iraq, or in Palestine, or even Afghanistan? How many of these people decide to become suicide bombers because of him?

Because they are just like us. Only the weapons arsenal is different. We have smart bombs, they have suicide bombers.

Indeed. Witness the first reply on this thread:

I couldn't agree more.

With 193 political entities on this ever shrinking planet, those questions increasingly become more important than to marginalize them as rhetorical.

Ah yes, Restoration of the Caliphate It is a topic that is always good for a little fear mongering.

Let's see, what are the actual chances for anything close to that coming into existence. A unifies government that encompasses large parts of India, some of China, some of Russia, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia Israel, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Libya, Spain Romania, and many more I have forgotten? I think very unlikely.

And how likely that this entity will pose a political threat to any western government?

And despite the fact that this is a clear fantasy, we fear it to our bones.

Now lets reverse the context and look at the world from a Muslim perspective. What is the threat from "Crusader " nations? They have in fact taken over most of Palestine and Jerusalem, and are constantly taking more land. They knock over non-compliant Muslim governments at will and intimidate those they do not directly control. The real evidence of military, economic, political, and cultural imperialism against Muslim countries is overwhelming. So It would seem that OBL and his ilk really have a lot of evidence to support the calls to Islamic fundamentalism to fight these influences.

Taking the last question first, it seems to me it is the western MSM that anointed OBL and he has gladly fulfilled the role. I wonder how much mileage he would have gotten if our government and media had not done so.

I read the translation of the tape and am struck by the conflation of several ideas on his part. I think he is absolutely correct when he says that corporatism has brought about many ills in the world, all at the holy altar of profits. I strongly disagree with his prescription -- converting to Islam -- being of the view that there are many paths to raising ourselves above the anti-human nature of this malady.

To me his actions are abominable and cannot be justified under any guise. I say the same about anyone who kills for any cause whatsoever. There is something deeply flawed in his thinking process and he is given too many platforms to spread that illness to others.

It has been said many times that we are in competition with him and his followers and fellow travellers for the minds of humans around the world. he has chosen to make that competition deadly. It seems to me a mistake to play into his game with more violence.

It has also been said that the "war against terrorism" isn't a war at all but rather a call for better policing and intelligencing. Right after the attack of 9/11 many of us wondered what would impell such viciousness and concluded that some of the cause lay with our own actions.

For complex reasons many Americans seem incapable of admitting that possibility. As an individual I learned during my life's journey that it always pays to include myself when searching for the cause of problems. More often than not by changing my own attitude or actions the problems begin to cure on their own.

I suggest that if our government and people adopted this approach most of our problems would go away or clear up just in the course of life itself.

Good post, Phil! You make some worthwhile points. Especially kudo's for having the temerity to say that OBL is "right" about something. Even George W. Bush is occasionally right about something. So was Adolph Hitler. At the risk of abruptly ending the discussion, I mention that.