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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178 |
Bigots divided in Washington State.... Drive to stop gay-partnership law is dividing conservatives LA- Times "I think we can win on the marriage issue, but if we deplete our capital of money and goodwill in a failed referendum, we will not have the strength to win the marriage battle," Fuiten wrote in his e-mail.
Yet referendum backers argue that public momentum is on their side.
"It's the last incremental step to gay marriage for gay activists," said Gary Randall, president of the Faith & Freedom Network, who is helping coordinate the signature campaign. "We're not trying to take anything from anyone. We're simply trying to defend and keep marriage as it has always been throughout all of human history." Talk about tortured logic....
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Feb 2008
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
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And he's not a very good historian! His concept of marriage is, in fact, a rather recent phenomenon. In the early modern period, John Calvin and his Protestant colleagues reformulated Christian marriage by enacting the Marriage Ordinance of Geneva, which imposed "The dual requirements of state registration and church consecration to constitute marriage"[32] for recognition.
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178 |
You know, Logan, that's history that needs to be highlighted in this debate. We Americans have such a skewed perception of history. We forget that the DoMA movement is only one generation ago. We also forget the principles of our nation's foundation more often than we cite them for our particular cause.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 605
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
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A campaign to roll back gay rights that kicked off in Washington state over the weekend has split the Christian conservative community, with some wondering whether it is the right time for a fight and others arguing that time may be running out.
On the heels of the recent California Supreme Court ruling that upheld Proposition 8's prohibition against same-sex marriage, conservative groups here began collecting signatures for a ballot referendum to block a new Washington state law that substantially expands rights for domestic partners. This isn't even about marriage. Reading the quotes from these religious guys is sickening. They are openly and bluntly saying that gay people are not equal and should have no rights. Larry Stickney of the Washington Values Alliance, who also backs the referendum, told Fuiten that the recession could help defeat the law because more people were turning to religion after losing their jobs. That's right Larry, get 'em while their vulnerable. Work on defeating rights within the churches (as usual). Perhaps you could convince them that they lost their jobs because the gays are getting married. . I have no love for religion, but my mother is a strong Catholic who goes to church almost every day and she will not vote against gays. I suspect that this simplistic worldview that all religious people hate gays and vice versa will lead to your defeat in your noble fight against equality. I also suspect that, like most religious types of your ilk, you will deny hating anyone while working feverishly to take rights away from your fellow citizens. You will claim that it is not hatred because, after all, you believe in God! And that it is the gays that hate because they are fighting back. He also predicted that passage of a federal hate crimes law this year could introduce legal roadblocks to campaigning against same-sex partnerships. I, and others, warned that they would not stop at defeating same sex marriage. What a surprise. It makes all of their lies about "not taking rights from anyone" and that they "were only defending the sacred traditional definition of marriage", more transparent. He also predicted that passage of a federal hate crimes law this year could introduce legal roadblocks to campaigning against same-sex partnerships.
"We may be running out of time to address this issue without fear of jail time," he responded to Fuiten's e-mail. Wow! Wait a second, did Larry just openly admit that he knows that what they are doing is rooted in hatred? Nice admission. Yes, sadly, if gays have equality, Larry may not be able to openly discriminate. That's not persecution, no matter how much he (and others) try to sell it that way. "jail time"?  drama queen.
We are constantly invited to be who we are. Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178 |
Thanks, Jeffro, for speaking my mind. Larry Stickney and his ilk are disgusting, and it amazes me that they cannot (willfully will not) see the absurdity of statements like "We're not taking anything away from anyone" while doing precisely that. It is a mental disorder that can be found in the DSM-IV.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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OP
Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
The U.S. Supreme Court has turned down a challenge to the Defense Department policy forbidding gays and lesbians from serving openly in the military, granting a request by the Obama administration.
The court said Monday that it will not hear an appeal from former Army Capt. James Pietrangelo II, who was dismissed under the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Feb 2008
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
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It may be wishful/biased thinking on my part, Phil, but I took this in context of decision not to appeal the 9th Circuit's ruling against DADT and the current makeup of the Supreme Court to be a desire to avoid having this decision decided by the current panel of 9; guessing somebody thinks Kennedy would swing right if there is a vote on this one and not wanting that to happen, the administration argued against the case going forward.
Further complicating the picture, I'm guessing, is a desire to have this matter handled through the executive and legislative branches rather than the judicial so that the final outcome cannot be attacked as "judicial activism" and used as fodder for the 2010 and 2012 cannons.
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
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I agree with your analysis logan
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,850
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,850 |
I agree with your analysis logan My gosh! I got one right? 
Last edited by loganrbt; 06/08/09 06:52 PM.
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,985 Likes: 178 |
Double right, because I agree too.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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