Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Constitutional Issues Big brother is watching

Should there be a law forbidding banks to install security cameras?

How about a federal law that makes it illegal for cities to install traffic camera's?

Where has the NSA installed cameras? How about the FBI, or the CIA?

What did Snowden reveal about government installed cameras?

[b]Civil liberties: surveillance and the state[/b]

This dynamic is apparent in many fields... bio-technology, economics, the internet itself.

We do not---and fundamentally cannot know the extended impact of such sorts of social, scientific, and technical re-structuring.

Humanity has and extensive record of incorporating such changes. It was a big change to move from hunter gatherer to farmers. Introducing mechanical power and industrialized production was a big deal. Moving to cars was big. Mechanized farming has wrought enormous changes.

No one has ever planned what our future will be like. Those who have tried such plans have consistently failed.

And, no one has been able to freeze society to avoid changes whose impact they feared.

Historically, changes have happened at a slower pace. This has given humans more time to adapt to those changes.

The current pace of change seems extraordinary, and the rate of change is accelerating.

It seems inevitable that catastrophes will arise. But I am skeptical that these catastrophes can be anticipated or prevented.

My own view is that concerns about personal privacy are overblown.

I think that our "privacy" far exceeds that of our forebears. FOr instance I have much more privacy than someone living in a native american village.... or similar sorts of "primitive" human groupings. If you have ever lived in a small town, you would understand that technology is not required to significantly erase privacy.

In my view, the "privacy" we have achieved in our modern world has turned people into isolated and anonymous actors. We have shifted away from cohesive social units. The resulting personal anonymity has removed social pressure to participate in collective efforts; it has removed that stigma associated with anti-social behavior.

In the "old days".... it would be very dangerous for a person to commit a crime. If anyone saw you, they would know who you are and where to find you. In that circumstance, security cameras would be unnecessary. But what we now are considering as "privacy" would not exist, with or without security cameras. When you live in a village, no one needs exotic electronic surveillance to know what you are up to.

IMO the debate about privacy is an extension of the political/social debate about the fundamental nature of the human being. The Randian/Libertarian perspective (as I understand it) is that our ideal nature is perfectly individual and self interested. Such an individual would be concerned to maintain maximum separation (privacy) from others.

I do not think that conception of humanity corresponds to our evolutionary nature. It does not correspond to our social evolution. It does not correspond to the natural way of life of any of our near relatives in the animal kingdom.

FOr this reason I find the aspiration to an idealized perfect privacy to be misdirected.

Ardy, I'm neither an intellectual nor philosopher. I'm more of a nuts 'n bolts type guy. All I want to do is get some illegal operating and installed surveillance devices removed- serial #'s and inventoried . Years ago I sued some federal agents. A federal criminal investigator "investigated" my charges and charged me with USC 1001. I charged him with that and more, but I learned the hard- and expensive way- that it doesn't work that way. I have no intention of retrying lost cases. At the time, I had suspicions that the government tampered with my first set and then second set of lawyers. I was forced to proceed pro se. I'm not into playing lawyer. However, I had no alternative. After I deposed the VP and General Counsel, among corp. others,they testified that never heard of this criminal investigator, who was subsequently promoted. The point is that not only did this CI fabricate the charges, he also fabricated his report charging with criminal violations. My goal is to get some illegal surveillance devices, which 3 experts verified but refused to supply their reports, removed. Does that seem unreasonable? Joe