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pdx rick #288566 06/02/16 04:12 AM
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Rick, I said it was from a conservative rag, of course they have no idea what they are talking about. But neither do the voters they would be targeting with ads about Sanders communist ties. And they are there! He honeymooned in the USSR for chrissake. Here's another. Like it or not Bernie's closet is full of communist skeletons.


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Originally Posted by Phil Hoskins
This election cycle has brought out all the crazies, and made quite a few who were not apparent before now show their colors
Are you calling me crazy, Phil? wink


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Greger #288568 06/02/16 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Greger
Rick, I said it was from a conservative rag, of course they have no idea what they are talking about. But neither do the voters they would be targeting with ads about Sanders communist ties. And they are there! He honeymooned in the USSR for chrissake. Here's another. Like it or not Bernie's closet if full of communist skeletons.
At least YOU could have put communist in quotations... Hmm , rolleyes , coffee


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Greger #288570 06/02/16 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Greger
Originally Posted by Phil Hoskins
This election cycle has brought out all the crazies, and made quite a few who were not apparent before now show their colors
Are you calling me crazy, Phil? wink
ONLY as a compliment


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pdx rick #288571 06/02/16 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pdx rick
Originally Posted by Greger
...some of the skeletons we'd be seeing...
You're linking an article that doesn't quite know the difference between socialism and Marxism and uses the terms interchangeably? rolleyes

I feel like this post is from a "conservative" - they certainly don't know the difference and they most certainly use the terms interchangeably. Hmm

The Post doesn't even qualify as a rag - toilet paper is more appropriate. In the political world it counts for zero. But, in a way, it's actually a compliment. coffee


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Greger #288572 06/02/16 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Greger
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Apparently you are unaware of all the skeletons in Ms. Clinton's closet. Somehow I don't think Bernie can compete with her on that issue.
Links to some of those skeletons?

It could be said that Bernie hasn't done much of anything and so of course he hasn't accumulated many skeletons, just an inconsequential legislator who (mostly) voted for progressive causes. But that's not entirely true. He has a long and sordid history with socialist and communist causes. Doesn't bother me since I could be considered a social democrat, but Bernie isn't a social democrat. He is a democratic socialist. He has said it himself and I can assure you he knows the difference. If you'd like a taste of what the right wing press has on him here is a link to a right wing rag that outlines some of the skeletons we'd be seeing dragged out if he were the nominee.

They're keeping it pretty much on the down low so far but you can bet your ass we'd be pounded with adds about his communist ties should he become the nominee.

But you forget, dear boy, that Hillary has accumulated so many skeletons without actually doing anything of consequence. Methinks she wins the prize.
I know the difference between Social Democrat (wishy-washy liberal stuff) and democratic socialist (someone who has some actual principles). I prefer the latter.
I wish he were a commie, but unfortunately he is not.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
>speculation

Have you seen a single Republican ad attacking Bernie Sanders?
I have not. I wonder why not. You would think Republicans are opposed to Socialists, wouldn't you?

Not sure if you've considered the fact that she is the easier target. She is easier to attack because she mucks things up and makes vague statements about important issues. It is harder to attack someone who is clear about what they think.

Quote
Though Sanders hasn’t been hit nearly as hard as Clinton, he has been attacked by the right a few times. Future 45, a conservative Super PAC funded by backers of Marco Rubio, ran a 30-second spot sounding the alarms on higher taxes to come under Sanders.

Also note, Hillary's campaign is doing the work for the Republicans (they have sponsored many more attack ads against Bernie) so why should the Republicans spend money when their presumptive opponent is doing their dirty work.

Quote
Our ruling

Clinton said, "Let me say that I don't think (Sanders has) had a single negative ad ever run against him."

The number of attack ads against Sanders pales in comparison to the number against Clinton, but she’s wrong that he’s been completely spared.

Democratic groups, including one supporting Clinton, and Republican outfits alike have gone after Sanders.

We rate her claim False.

PF


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Ezekiel #288577 06/02/16 04:58 PM
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I know the difference between Social Democrat (wishy-washy liberal stuff) and democratic socialist (someone who has some actual principles). I prefer the latter.
I wish he were a commie, but unfortunately he is not.
Well, that explains a lot. And it sets you up for a lot of disappointment. Nearly half of America wants government to be so small that they could drown it in a bathtub and I'd like for it to at least have a nice Jacuzzi to give it some room to wiggle, you seem to want it so big it needs to be wedged into an Olympic pool.
Social democracies have been a success in many nations and are a foreseeable goal here. Once you turn the corner into democratic socialism you begin to open up the same opportunities for corruption that have destroyed many other socialist states. Not unlike the corruption inevitable in a primarily capitalist state such as we are dealing with here and now. Social democracy, to me, represents that place between the frying pan and the fire.


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Greger #288578 06/02/16 05:06 PM
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I could provide my own analysis, here, but this sums it up pretty well:  
Why Bernie Sanders’s trouncing of Donald Trump may not mean that much
Quote
part of the reason that Clinton does worse against Trump is because of Sanders supporters. The Upshot's Nate Cohn made this point last week, noting that recent YouGov polling showed Clinton leading Trump by 40 points among Sanders voters — and Sanders leading Trump by 70. Trump has benefited from consolidation of Republican support; it's fair to assume that Clinton will similarly benefit once Democrats unify behind her candidacy.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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It's the Despair Quotient!
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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Really, Liberals do NOT want to throw the Progressives under the bus: They want to elect a President who will get changes (especially in the Supreme Court) that Progressives will like. They won't get the revolution, and they won't suddenly get to hunt down and barbeque the rich.

Sorry to burst any bubbles but in all my years of being a liberal I cannot confess to any sort of desire to be a cannibal, even though in 1971 or 72 I seem to remember chants from some of my oldest brother's SDS friends, "Free Stanley Baker! EAT THE RULING CLASS!"

Why is it people imagine that liberals harbor some kind of confiscatory wet dream littered with soviet donoshikestya and neighborhood politburos. Please see "neighborhood HOA" and "church social" instead, as those are distinctly Republican ideas and as conservative as mounting a flag to your scooter and yelling about Jade Helm! ROTFMOL

Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
But they will get a liberal Supreme Court for the next 30 years.

For some reason, liberals are still behind the curve on this, preferring instead to just let Trump win, let Rome go up in flames and muddle through the next four years. No matter how carefully I explain the damage that can be done by two or even three new Scalia/Thomas clones, they just don't seem to get it yet.
The remainder are happy to just yell that "Bernie isn't a real Democrat" and vote for Hillary.


Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
They probably won't get single-payer for all, but they will get some movement towards it maybe including profit limits on Big Pharma.

I still maintain that a crisis is coming in the near future. Hospitals are fed up with insurance companies, and doctors are finding it too expensive to maintain a practice outside of a corporate environment. The clerical resources necessary for a solo doctor to negotiate with big insurance are too expensive.

Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
They won't get free college for everybody, but they will get some relief programs for student loans and some low-cost state colleges and universities for the qualified.

My UCLA tuition in 1981-82 was couch change, about a thousand a year, which translates to roughly $2600 today if my math is right.
Any kid working a part time McJob can handle that, yes?
Believe it or not I actually think that if university is totally free for EVERYONE it will become "worthless", thus I actually favor a means tested and performance tied setup.
If Junior is of wealthy means or being supported by wealthy parents, full price. If not, Junior gets the 2600 dollar a year plan as long as he maintains at least a C average.
I think that even Bernie would settle for a deal like that.
He's nothing if not pragmatic.

Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Why settle for the broken dream of changes that the American public will not support versus some changes that they will support? Politics is the Art of the Possible. Having dreams is great, but fixating on dreams that never come true is for losers.

Again I am convinced that Sanders values pragmatism above all else because how else could a so called "socialist" reach across the aisle successfully for decades?


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