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Ezekiel #290204 07/23/16 03:33 PM
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I knew she wouldn't pick Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, since she probably thinks she has that wing covered. Plus, I think she's still a little mad at Bernie.

So I was hoping for Julian Castro. He speaks Spanish, too. But she picked someone like herself, but with a better reputation.

Oh, and why does Hillary have such a bad reputation? Because the GOP has been flinging mud at her since 1992, when Bill Clinton was elected and put her in charge of health care. Twenty four years of mud slinging and nothing has stuck. But it doesn't matter that she has been proven clean over and over, the accusations still hang in the air.

Last edited by Spag-hetti; 07/23/16 03:36 PM. Reason: 2016 - 1992 = 24, not 26

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Originally Posted by Spag-hetti
I knew she wouldn't pick Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, since she probably thinks she has that wing covered. Plus, I think she's still a little mad at Bernie.
...

If anyone has the right to be mad it is Bernie - especially with the release of these emails from the DNC. But of course, we knew that and now we can prove it.
She DOESN'T have the left covered, and this pick may make it worse. She is losing support from the progressives - not surprising - and I have little belief that she will pick up much support from moderate Republicans who seem to want to sit this whole mess out.
Castro may have been a little better. But now it's just wait and see.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
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"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Scoutgal #290206 07/23/16 06:38 PM
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Hillary will never pick up support from the ultra-left wing of the party that thought Bernie was too moderate, but they're not really Democrats, anyway. She will get support from the majority of Bernie supporters, at least those with a pragmatic bone in their bodies. She's making a play for the majority of voters and Kaine is a good pick for that because he offers stability. That is an excellent counterweight to Trumppence's gloom and doom.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
Scoutgal #290207 07/23/16 06:39 PM
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I favored Castro myself, but she was probably right: Bernie supports this, so it will lose fewer Progressives than it gains Independent votes. She has said she wants somebody who is ready to step into the Oval Office on day one if anything happens to take her out. So she picked a moderate.

Progressives were probably almost all going to vote for her just because of Trump. The real gain a VP can get her is in the Independents, which is now huge. If she can do that, she doesn't need a single moderate Republican vote.

Scoutgal #290208 07/23/16 06:44 PM
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As the campaign moves forward, Sanders, Warren, Booker, etc. Will be powerful advocates for progressive support, moderates of both major parties will swing her way, and the DNC will be seen as a major turning point towards her eventual landslide. Having said that, it is important for true progressives to join in that fight because you know the right is going to pull out all the stops. There is a real threat from Trump. He's watching Erdogan and getting pointers.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Hillary will never pick up support from the ultra-left wing of the party that thought Bernie was too moderate, but they're not really Democrats, anyway. She will get support from the majority of Bernie supporters, at least those with a pragmatic bone in their bodies. She's making a play for the majority of voters and Kaine is a good pick for that because he offers stability. That is an excellent counterweight to Trumppence's gloom and doom.

Ultra left wing????? LOL You must be kidding. There is no such thing in the Democratic party. The same party that was thinking up ways to sabotage Sanders. The same party that has done little in the past 20 years to advance a social and economic policy that favors the working people of this country. The only reason progressives vote democrat is because there is no other choice. An unfortunate state of affairs that one can only hope will change in the remaining years of my lifetime.

She's moving in the wrong direction. I said it before and I'll say it again: that is a perilous play.
Kaine adds nothing to the ticket. Just another party hack. A series of wishy-washy positions on most major issues.
The only thing this ticket has going for it is that they are running against a proto-primate and a neanderthal. And one can only hope that that will be enough to bring them across the finish line.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Progressives were probably almost all going to vote for her just because of Trump. The real gain a VP can get her is in the Independents, which is now huge. If she can do that, she doesn't need a single moderate Republican vote.

You forget, dear boy, that the among the "independents" are many moderate Republicans.
And if she had taken a more positive step in the direction of a progressive agenda she would have attracted a much more robust and growing base.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Ezekiel #290218 07/24/16 12:09 AM
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And those "Moderate Republican" Independents would be turned off by more progressive VP pick. For some unknown reason you seem to think they would "see the light" and all go for a progressive. This is simply NOT true. You would be happier, but they would not be.

She doesn't need to make you happy now. She needs to appeal to every Independent centerist and Republican who can't stand Trump. I agree that this will be well to the right of my preferred positions and candidate picks, but she actually has to win before she can do anything.

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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
And those "Moderate Republican" Independents would be turned off by more progressive VP pick. For some unknown reason you seem to think they would "see the light" and all go for a progressive. This is simply NOT true. You would be happier, but they would not be.

She doesn't need to make you happy now. She needs to appeal to every Independent centerist and Republican who can't stand Trump. I agree that this will be well to the right of my preferred positions and candidate picks, but she actually has to win before she can do anything.

What I SAID: she shouldn't bother courting the so-called moderate Republicans. She should rather concentrate on the more progressive wing.
And yes she does have to win, but this seems to be a bad way of going around it.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Ezekiel #290221 07/24/16 02:15 AM
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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