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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Again... smoke and mirrors. Where's the evidence my friend? Where is there ANY evidence that anyone ACTIVELY tried to prevent Sanders from winning? You can make all the accusations you want, but that doesn't make them real, any more than Donald Trump's. OF COURSE the "establishment" preferred Clinton, who has been a loyal soldier for decades, to someone who became a "Democrat" only for the race. That is water-cooler talk. Once again, provide me with ANY email that shows that anyone actively tried to interfere with Sanders' campaign. Seriously. Show me the money.

There is nothing more disturbing than having one's illusions dashed. I get it.
But you say they "preferred" Clinton? Is that the way it is supposed to be? If Sanders was running in their party should they not have been impartial and let the voters decide (without showing preference)?
Oh wait, the voters don't really decide, do they? Only the so-called "super-delegates" get to make that call. You know, the ones who can vote however they are told to.
So please, my friend, don't make it sound as though it were a high school prank. It was a concerted effort to quash the progressives. It didn't work - because people actually wanted to be heard. Now they have to deal with it. But the cover-up is always worse than the event.
Not so hypothetical: A sitting president is shown to have ties with a conspiracy to bug his opponents. His campaign is using a slush fund to undertake covert actions against said political adversaries. There is no direct proof - or smoking gun. Who is responsible? Even if he claims he didn't know, then what else doesn't he know? Who handed out authority to people who perpetrated the crimes?
This is a big deal - and the sooner they get out in front of it, the better it will be.
It is a question of moral responsibility.


Last edited by Ezekiel; 08/04/16 11:24 AM.

"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
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"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Ezekiel #290762 08/03/16 04:30 PM
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Zeke, why, when someone disagrees, do you have to make it personal? Why is your response ridicule rather than facts? I find it rather insulting and irritating. You say "It was a concerted effort to quash the progressives." - Yet, once again, provide no examples of how this was done. To save you some trouble, I've read through the Intercept's oh-so-unbiased reportage, and even there it is more accusation than substance.

This is the kind of response that I find so infuriating. "That you don't want to see the truth is understandable. There is nothing more disturbing than having one's illusions dashed. I get it." What unmitigated bullsh!t. I'm simply pointing out that this conspiracy theory, like so many others, has no substance, merely innuendo.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Zeke, why, when someone disagrees, do you have to make it personal? Why is your response ridicule rather than facts? I find it rather insulting and irritating. You say "It was a concerted effort to quash the progressives." - Yet, once again, provide no examples of how this was done. To save you some trouble, I've read through the Intercept's oh-so-unbiased reportage, and even there it is more accusation than substance.

This is the kind of response that I find so infuriating. "That you don't want to see the truth is understandable. There is nothing more disturbing than having one's illusions dashed. I get it." What unmitigated bullsh!t. I'm simply pointing out that this conspiracy theory, like so many others, has no substance, merely innuendo.
It ain't personal.
Why would high ranking executives write the emails that really do exist? Why would the party that is supposed to be impartial show bias? You said that (they "preferred her"), not me.
The emails show a lot.It is that simple. It is logic.
Why would they prefer Clinton to Sanders or Sanders to Clinton? The argument is silly. There is no proof that those emails didn't mean more than "water-cooler". We (neither of us) know what was going on in the heads of the top tier of the DNC. And we don't know if any action was taken.
It's not personal, NW, it is purely rational. Something lacking in your argument.
To call it a conspiracy theory is to assume it without fact. It is an opinion. I disagree. I have emails which trump conjecture on what one may think they mean. Hence your argument is based on something whose results no one can possibly know - i.e., the results of emails THAT ACTUALLY DO EXIST.


Last edited by Ezekiel; 08/03/16 05:26 PM.

"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Scoutgal #290774 08/03/16 06:05 PM
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Republicans Are Realizing They’ve Made a Huge Mistake

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Of course, it’s one thing for Obama to call upon Republican leadership to denounce Trump, and quite another for them to follow through. Trump overwhelmingly won the Republican primaries. Indeed, he garnered more votes than any other Republican in history (although he also got the most votes against him too). Make no mistake, Ryan and McConnell, and senators like McCain, are relying heavily on these voters to turn out in the general election and vote for down-ticket Republicans. To pull their endorsements would be to effectively denounce these voters as well, falling into exactly the trap that Trump has often spoken of: that of an elite establishment that thinks it knows better than the voting public.

The New Republic


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Scoutgal #290777 08/03/16 06:15 PM
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Quote
The strategy of endorsing Donald Trump while keeping him at arm's length is going as badly as anyone could have expected
I hope that Trump keeps opening his big mouth and going rouge, all the way until November, and causes the GOP and its voters so much embarrassment that most stay home and The Dems win both the House and the Senate and we can finally get some work done.


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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I'm simply pointing out that this conspiracy theory, like so many others, has no substance, merely innuendo.

I don't normally buy into the correlation is causation gambit but when one assembles a timeline of the accusations, lawsuits, and then the resignations on the back end of the email dump, followed by the Hillary campaign asking for a much more progressive DNC chair, one does see a loose fitting set of puzzle pieces that point to some smelly business.

And the talk of Bernie not being "a real Democrat" is no longer "cricket" either because the man might not now be a "real Democrat" but he has now shown how he would like to SEE a real Democratic Party do business by using his campaign swan song as an example.
By being the classy guy he is, he is showing them how they should be, and in my book, he has done the Democratic Party a great service while transcending party politics to a certain extent at the same time.

And by the way, plenty of Bernie fans AND Democrats have responded in kind. Unity IS happening. It is slow, it is messy, it is still rife with bad blood but it is beginning to heal.

And Bernie WILL be an important asset to the Hillary administration. She's not stupid. She knows enough to align with a class act.


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Ezekiel #290782 08/03/16 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ezekiel
In the Hillary Clinton Era, Democrats Welcome Lobbying Money Back Into the Convention

Quote
BY QUIETLY DROPPING a ban on direct donations from registered federal lobbyists and political action committees, the Democratic National Committee in February reopened the floodgates for corruption that Barack Obama had put in place in 2008.

Secret donors with major public-policy agendas were welcomed back in from the cold and showered with access and appreciation at the Democratic convention in Philadelphia.

Major donors were offered “Family and Friends” packages, including suites at the Ritz-Carlton, backstage passes, and even seats in the Clinton family box. Corporate lobbyists like Heather Podesta celebrated the change, telling Time: “My money is now good.”

The Intercept

Heather Podesta
Quote
As a lobbyist, Podesta’s clients include the energy, finance, healthcare, retail, real estate, education, and transportation sectors.

At this point, with a Godwin Approved Nazi at the gates, I'm thinking this is straight self preservation.
Use the money bomb any way you can, just vaporize that Cheeto Jesus any way you can.

EDIT: Like another great Ranter already said: "I'd like to see the 538 say she's at 98% by September.
Yeah, I think I can relax at that point. Not even the most strenuous Republican voting machine hacks can overcome a 98% tidal wave.

Last edited by Jeffery J. Haas; 08/03/16 06:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
...but he has now shown how he would like to SEE a real Democratic Party do business by using his campaign swan song as an example..
Exactly.

Would the DNC appoint an Independent as Chair? Naw...that would be too progressive. smile


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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted by Ezekiel
In the Hillary Clinton Era, Democrats Welcome Lobbying Money Back Into the Convention

Quote
BY QUIETLY DROPPING a ban on direct donations from registered federal lobbyists and political action committees, the Democratic National Committee in February reopened the floodgates for corruption that Barack Obama had put in place in 2008.

Secret donors with major public-policy agendas were welcomed back in from the cold and showered with access and appreciation at the Democratic convention in Philadelphia.

Major donors were offered “Family and Friends” packages, including suites at the Ritz-Carlton, backstage passes, and even seats in the Clinton family box. Corporate lobbyists like Heather Podesta celebrated the change, telling Time: “My money is now good.”

The Intercept

Heather Podesta
Quote
As a lobbyist, Podesta’s clients include the energy, finance, healthcare, retail, real estate, education, and transportation sectors.

At this point, with a Godwin Approved Nazi at the gates, I'm thinking this is straight self preservation.
Use the money bomb any way you can, just vaporize that Cheeto Jesus any way you can.

EDIT: Like another great Ranter already said: "I'd like to see the 538 say she's at 98% by September.
Yeah, I think I can relax at that point. Not even the most strenuous Republican voting machine hacks can overcome a 98% tidal wave.

While I understand the point you make, an old adage comes to mind:
"You sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas"


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Scoutgal #290832 08/04/16 12:28 PM
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Fox News latest polls:

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The support for each candidate comes from the by-now-expected demographics. Clinton leads with women by 23 points; Trump leads with men by five. Clinton leads with black votes by 83 points (!); Trump leads with whites by 10. Of note: Clinton trails with independents by eight points, but gets 12 percent of the Republican vote to five percent of Democrats who say they'll back Trump.

[Linked Image from s6.postimg.org]

WaPo


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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