Capitol Hill Blue Forums Science and Technology Health, Medicine & the healing Sciences Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?

In order for it to work it must simply be made universally available, at no cost to most people, certainly those impacted...which IS "most people" now, let's face it.

First, a Pasteur study which has been narrowly reported elsewhere, identified a 4th relative of the COVID-19 circulating in France prior to the outbreak, and non-Wuhan sourced (as far as they can tell). That shows the not-surprising reality that there are other coronavirus relatives circulating around the world that also have the potential to become outbreaks. I wonder if what you got was one of those, but too distant a relative to show up on the test. Some of these relatives are known to be more gastro-centric rather than pneumo.

Second, I have been researching and perseverating about the population that doesn't produce IgG antibodies, as you note "This is the phenomenon called "failed to seroconvert" by some researchers." How big is this population? We need to know that. Testing, testing, testing.

Finally, I am excited about the remdesivir results. It will probably only be a stop-gap until a better, more specific anti-viral is developed.

I am experiencing a mixture of hopefulness and despair, hopefulness because Remdesivir might be promising, and despair because it may turn out that CV19 is just the first in a large FAMILY of new virii, each of which want to take a whack at the human race.

Maybe Mother Earth has decided she's had enough of us and this is just the first hit, with a fusillade of hits to come.

The SARS family of coronavirii are not new, but it's possible that this is the shining moment where SARS decided it likes us too much to just let us go.

What would have been the effect of a nationwide shutdown for 4 weeks starting on Feb 1? Would that have contained the virus? I suspect it would take a synchronized global effort.

The one thing which makes me think is, when a person dies, they don't come back, when an economy dies, it can be rebooted.

Be patient. One of the new vaccines shows it generates lots of anti-corona virus antibodies that neutralize the virus. It still needs the usual human trials to make sure it's safe, but at least it looks like it works. Three or four of the vaccines are at this stage or further along.

Yes a Feb 1 shutdown would have saved thousands of lives. We needed time to develop tests. It's almost impossible to do the usual contact tracing when you have so much asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic spread. A tight quarantine would have knocked it down with R0 << 1.

One thing we need to seriously think about is what kind of behavior is needed to open state quarantines, without massive failures and reinstatement of quarantines. One of those will be that everybody will have to wear masks in public. This is going to have to have some very compelling incentives. We have some people who see this as a freedom issue, but masks don't protect you. They prevent you from spreading the virus to other people. So these are not brave freedom fighters, as they see themselves. They are actually sociopaths trying to kill you!

Stores could be extremely safe places, if EVERYBODY wore masks at all times. That includes stockers working graveyard shift. Virus on surfaces degrades within a few days, so grocery items could auto-decontaminate just by sitting in a warehouse and then on store shelves. But stores will need to have a strict MASKED ONLY policy, with real teeth. Like immediately kicking people out if they don't have masks or they drop their masks. People who see masks as fascism could just take their business elsewhere, but then change their behavior when they find that no stores will let them in without a mask. Hunger is a strong incentive.

Looking at protesters in the news, the fact that they are not wearing masks is great evidence that the state is not ready to eliminate their restrictions. Everybody out in public spaces has to be wearing a mask. Then and only then can that state open back up. If that takes state laws or public health arrests, then that's what we need. Otherwise the infection rate is going to shoot back up again.

We need a big experiment: Some states will require masks and some won't. When the unmasked state rates rise exponentially, it will be clear. Not wearing a mask fits the legal definition of manslaughter.

I don't know why you are under the impression that the cardiac toxicity of hydroxychloroquine hadn't been reported before. This is from the official FDA monograph on HCQ:

"Cardiac Effects, including Cardiomyopathy and QT prolongation: Postmarketing cases of life-threatening and fatal cardiomyopathy have been reported with use of hydroxychloroquine sulfate as well as with use of chloroquine. Patients may present with atrioventricular block, pulmonary hypertension, sick sinus syndrome or with cardiac complications. ECG findings may include atrioventricular, right or left bundle branch block. Signs or symptoms of cardiac compromise have appeared during acute and chronic treatment. Clinical monitoring for signs and symptoms of cardiomyopathy is advised, including use of appropriate diagnostic tools such as ECG to monitor patients for cardiomyopathy during hydroxychloroquine sulfate therapy. Chronic toxicity should be considered when conduction disorders (bundle branch block/atrio-ventricular heart block) or biventricular hypertrophy are diagnosed. If cardiotoxicity is suspected, prompt discontinuation of hydroxychloroquine sulfate may prevent life-threatening complications.

Hydroxychloroquine sulfate prolongs the QT interval. Ventricular arrhythmias and torsades de pointes have been reported in patients taking hydroxychloroquine sulfate. Therefore, hydroxychloroquine sulfate should not be administered with other drugs that have the potential to prolong the QT interval."

And you are correct that the combination with azithromycin makes it worse (given that AZ also prolongs QTc, exactly the situation the FDA is warning about). Also, the SARS-CoV-2 causes myocarditis, which makes the problem worse too, which is why we are seeing WAY MORE cardiac toxicity with HCQ+AZ in COVID-19 than with malaria.

Safety is disease-specific. A medication (or even worse, a combination of medications) can be helpful and harmless in patients with one condition, and ineffective and harmful in patients with a different condition.

This is why when a new indication is proposed for an existing drug, the FDA requires NEW safety and efficacy tests in THAT population before the indication is granted. Assuming that because it is safe and effective for malaria, it is safe and effective for COVID-19, is a grave mistake.

Regardless of what your YouTube is saying, yes, there's been very clear-cut reports of cardiac toxicity with AZ + HCQ or CQ in COVID-19, including a study in which so many subjects dropped dead of cardiac arrest that the Data and Safety Monitoring Board ordered the study terminated.

Further along? Which one is further along? That I know, there is no vaccine that has progressed beyond barely scratching the Phase I trials.

Yes, we took too long to lockdown.

In Mississipi, the governor is getting cold feet. A surge in cases and deaths on Friday has him reconsidering the reopening there. Which is interesting because there is always a gap between infection and diagnosis, and diagnosis and death. So if it's surging now, it relates to a surge that happened before the reopening. But I'll take it, because I do think that it is premature to open up, from the epidemiological standpoint.

Interesting. A friend of mine, medical doctor, had to quarantine out of work for two weeks, as he developed fever, malaise, muscle aches, and a GI syndrome. We were all thinking that he had caught COVID-19 from a patient, but he ended up testing negative. Maybe he was one of the ones you're referring to.

No, they do. I saw it on TV. It was called "Game of Thrones."