Capitol Hill Blue Forums Science and Technology Health, Medicine & the healing Sciences Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?

So PIA and I chit you not. I was on my way somewhere this morning and I passed by the Lane County Fairground’s. At the fairgrounds they are administering Covid-19 vaccines daily. Come and get it for free. They had 2 yard signs in the front entrance that were right next to each other. One directing to COVID-19 vaccines and the other advertising the upcoming gun show.

They were touching each other.

I cannot make this stuff up. I wished I had taken a pic…but I didn’t.

BTW the vaccines they are administering (for free) are both mRNA vaccines. The Pfizer-Bio and the Moderna. Take your pick. I had the three Pfizer’s and my neighbor had two Pfizer’s and chased it with the Moderna. His thinking being the Moderna was slightly stronger, so to speak.

Do you have any opinions on the difference twixt the two?

For clarity the vaccines were administered over the recommended periods of time. I nor he did not take them all at once.

Your computer may be adding an extra space in-between the last character of the link and the beginning and the end of the code [ ] bar. Take those spaces out and the link will work.

Moderna seems to perform a bit better, but that may actually be because they waited 4 weeks instead of 3. (My Moderna was 5 weeks because Texas froze and screwed up all the flights.) Immunologist agree: 16 weeks would have been better. But the vaccine makers were in a hurry, and lots of folks dying every day, so they made the interval short. Some immunologists consider them a three shot series, if you get a booster six months after the second one. The immune system creates germinal centers in the lymph nodes, where they evolve the antibody genes to make every possible antibody against all corona viruses (current or future!). That takes time to get going. If you wait the 16 weeks between vaccinations, it's all ready and the second exposure to antigen gives you a lot of antibodies and a lot of kinds of antibodies. So new variants can't escape them very much. Same thing for infection followed later by vaccination: Excellent immunity for people with working immune systems.

Booster brand probably makes little difference. But I would hold out for mRNA if I got J&J before. That rare thrombocytopenia side effect of J&J and AstraZeneca seems to be from the adenovirus they use to carry the spike RNA. mRNA has no adenovirus.

Won’t comment on your condescension towards vaccine hesitancy.
But how can you be taken serious with:

“ And yes, the mRNA vaccines are much more effective than almost any other vaccine ever made. That's not my opinion. It's that of professional virologists and immunologists”

They leak. They allow the virus to be passed to others. They are non-sterilizing and can lead to selective pressure for immune escape. I’m not saying don’t be vaccinated or get boosted but your making some pretty broad claims.

I’d much prefer an early intervention using therapeutics on top of mitigation strategies with vaccines but YMMV.

The level of individual blame on institutional failure is truly off the charts but isn’t that the constant strategy here?

Thanks Rick and Logs. Tried c/p. I’ll try the spaces next

I'm not. My claims are all based on what the professional virologists and immunologists on TWIV have said. Their information is all backed by real peer-reviewed and published papers from scientific journals. These people all have decades of experience each, PhDs in their fields, and regularly get research grants from US government agencies for their projects. They say that the HPV vaccine is the only one ever made that remains sterilizing, but it's only existed for 15 years so far, so they don't know if it will be that effective in the future. Every other vaccine is not. They all permit infection and transmission, but make the illness less severe and cut transmission compared to the non-vaccinated.

There is a lot of misinformation and false or exaggerated claims out on the internet, from totally unqualified people. Unfortunately, many of them are actually MDs who should know better.

If you have a hard time accepting that, here's a chart put out by the Provincial Health Authority of British Columbia:

Vaccine Immunogenicity

"Seroconversion" means the patient made antibodies, but says nothing about natural antibody contraction. It also says nothing about the fact that people can make antibodies that don't block cell entry of a virus. An example is the entry for tetanus:
But antibody contraction is why you have to get a booster every few years.

When’s the last time you got a small pox or measles booster PIA?

When’s the last time you heard about a small pox case?

I’m guessing your on you third booster of COVID ‘vaccine’ in less than as many years. Would you please provide a link to the idea that mRNA vaccines are the most effective vaccines the world has ever known cuz, brudder, this sure ain’t it. At least as far as a Rona virus is concerned. Useful? Yes. the data shows that plain enough.

There’s been very good reporting of disease spread from people who’ve been fully vacced up on mRNA COVID vaccines. Could be due to the difficulty of a fast mutating virus like COVID. Could also be a problem of the mRNA vaccine not being the end all your claiming it is (or repeating what others have claimed, as you say). Those reports were from countries with good sequencing/ contact tracing. I’m guessing those front line workers had a few phd’s in the mix too but that would be speculating.

I’ll always weigh more heavily the front line reports against claims of manufacturers as they are the ones dealing with real world conditions and results.

And so far, these world beating mRNA vaccines leak and there has been terrible information and instruction coming out of our public health institutions, or what passes for public health in this country these days. The numbers of deaths speak for themselves. The politics have helped with em as well.

Here’s one view of where it stands:

‘ By fitting an immunological model to population-level vaccine effectiveness data, we estimate that neutralizing antibody titres for Omicron are reduced by 4.5-fold (95% CrI 3.1–7.1) compared to the Delta variant. This is predicted to result in a drop in vaccine efficacy against severe disease (hospitalisation) from 96.5% (95% CrI 96.1%–96.8%) against Delta to 80.1% (95% CrI 76.3%–83.2%) against Omicron for the Pfizer-BioNTech booster by 60 days post boost if NAT decay at the same rate following boosting as following the primary course, and from 97.6% (95% CrI 97.4%-97.9%) against Delta to 85.9% (95% CrI 83.1%-88.3%) against Omicron if NAT decay at half the rate observed after the primary course. Integrating this immunological model within a model of SARS-CoV-2 transmission, we show that booster doses will be critical to mitigate the impact of future Omicron waves in countries with high levels of circulating virus.

The money shot:

“In all scenarios it is likely that health systems will be stretched. It may be essential, therefore, to maintain and/or reintroduce [Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPIs)] to mitigate the worst impacts of the Omicron variant as it replaces the Delta variant.“

Report 48 - The value of vaccine bo...impact of the Omicron SARS-CoV-2 variant

My guess is ‘na gunna happen’ in neoliberal land of the commodified returns on investment. Unless we reach a critical mass of palms getting greased, NPI’s are going to be discouraged and/or mocked by the political factions. More coming from Demcorp at the moment. We saw the disparaging for the prophylactic whose name will not be said but is turning in good results in other countries where it is being used effectively.

Has the CDC acknowledged Rona spreading thru aerosols of exhaled breath of the infected yet? Not droplets or fomites but mainly aerosols? I sure would hate to think that they’ve wasted all this time so far. I’d like to think they’ve come up with mitigation strategies for dealing with aerosol spread. Hard to imagine they would be going all in on a waning vaccine shot.

I hope the ‘Omicron is mild’ hopium the Pfizer funded media has been selling turns out to be true.

I'm not clear on your point. Are you taking on the evils of Capitalism? Does that have something to do with getting a handle on the pandemic using vaccines?

I'm no fan of corporate Capitalists, I hope that's been a clear message in my decade here.

I am a fan of getting vaccinated, though.