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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,869 Likes: 80
old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,869 Likes: 80 |
I am putting this here because I think that the Abortion question is based on religion and little else, certainly not facts. There are indications that legal abortions reduced the number of unwanted children which, in turn, reduced crime, from 1970's to 1990's approximately 20% Questions and studies of unwanted children fills volumes I offer just one possible result of abortion: https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/BFI_WP_201975.pdfFrom 2011 to 2017 Legal abortions reduced by 19% https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/BFI_WP_201975.pdfBanning abortions would increase the maternal death rate by 21% or more. https://www.colorado.edu/today/2021...d-boost-maternal-mortality-double-digitsThe United States rates 127th out of 185 countries Americal has more maternal deaths than countries such as Turnkey, Russia, Uruguay, Latvia, etc. https://www.nationmaster.com/nmx/ranking/lifetime-risk-of-maternal-deathIf you like statistics www.nationmster.com is a really great place for them about just about everything. NationMaster was setup for students to use. I have been giving abortion a bit of thought. The number of abortions has been steadily dropping since it was made legal years ago which I have always thought was interesting. I think it may be due to better education when it comes to evil sex (a personal belief based on nothing). Unwanted children is a peskey one. There is a lot about them. They have very hard times and many turn to crime. Banning abortions also means that many more maternals will die. The simple fact is that banning abortions doesn't mean reducing abortions (apparently quite the reverse) as abortions will continue but many will cause problems, death, unwanted children, and possibly even more crime. Apparently the Republicans are all for banning abortions which I find very strange because of the costs of doing that. A lot of abortions happen because the maternal one has no money, no husband, no job, etc. When forced to bear the baby in question I suspect gov will have to pay for the birth, the taking care of, the education of, etc. of the baby in question which may get a lot more expensive for tax payers as well. When one adds it all up banning abortions becomes a really taxing experience for tab payers. Given that Republicans are, at least by supposition, don't like taxes but supporting abortion will increase taxes. In other words the banning of abortions will make the goddites very happy as it will please the lord. The simple fact is that its not gonna stop abortions just create more problems for gov to fix and I have little faith that it gonna get fixed. The only real thing that will happen is that more die young, more unwanted, possibly criminal, children, etc. The simple fact is that banning abortions fix nothing and make a mess of things. In other words banning abortion is a really bad idea no matter how you look at it. Oh, in passing, I guess I should also mention that amongst those who want to ban abortion are the males. They are quite prominant when it comes to abortions. Nobody seems to notice that one which is kind of interesting all on its own. Just a few thoughts...........
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
There is a recipe for abortion in the Bible! (Numbers 5:11-31) Which makes it odd that so many biblical literalists are opposed. Jesus never said a word about it, and nobody thought up ensoulment at conception until 1500 years after Jesus. Before that, it was thought the soul enters the body with the first breath. Actually, infant mortality was so high around Jesus' times infants under a year old were not even counted in the census.
So one could make the argument that opposing abortion is heresy. But that's not at all unusual. Lots of things modern "Christians" believe are heretical. Fundamental things like "Your dead Grandpa is in heaven watching over you." flys in the face of early Christian beliefs that said people take a long dirt nap until Jesus returns, and only saints go right to heaven. In general, Christian dogma has gotten a lot more comforting, and less Christian over the centuries. Now we have so-called Christians saying immigration laws are more important than "Love your neighbor as yourself." Exactly the opposite of what Jesus is quoted as saying.
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128 |
The Supreme Court incompletely justified abortion rights by critically missing that point in Roe, as Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote before she sat on the court. She elaborated on this in her dissent in Gonzales v. Carhart: "[L]egal challenges to undue restrictions on abortion procedures do not seek to vindicate some generalized notion of privacy; rather, they center on a woman's autonomy to determine her life's course, and thus to enjoy equal citizenship stature." Advocates must argue that the government has a legitimate interest in protecting already-existing human lives subjected to oppression that stems from state action based on impermissible sex stereotyping in an unequal society. To put that in plain language, abortion is necessary so long as sex inequality in society persists.
When the government interferes with abortion access, it is effectively coercing pregnancy — stripping women of their bodily autonomy and subjecting them to potential pregnancy risks, and in most cases many years of parenting. If the Supreme Court has determined that judicial enforcement of private, racially-restrictive covenants violated the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause, on the premise that judicial action was state action, per Shelley v. Kraemer, the court should also find that judicial enforcement of public laws violating the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause, per Roe v. Wade, would constitute state action. "When abortion-restrictive regulation is analyzed as state action compelling motherhood, it presents equal protection concerns that Roe's physiological reasoning obscures," according to constitutional law scholar Reva Siegel.Equal protection should preclude state coercion of motherhood.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,124 Likes: 249
It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
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It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,124 Likes: 249 |
Now we have so-called Christians saying immigration laws are more important than "Love your neighbor as yourself." Exactly the opposite of what Jesus is quoted as saying. That last one changes like the wind on a late spring day in tornado country and for the most part, in times of encroaching authoritarianism, some of the wealthier churches always make the move to protect themselves...err (COUGH COUGH!!!...SELL OUT) to the authoritarians if they're right wing (wealth makes deals with wealth & power) and in the case of left wing authoritarians they just hibernate and go underground. That's what the world has witnessed in the last few generation. There are exceptions, of course. But not many. 
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,869 Likes: 80
old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,869 Likes: 80 |
Its a 'feelgood' thing with many of the banning folks. Babies are cute, especially the new ones. Stopping people from killing them is kindly and makes them feel a lot better. Men want to ban because they are saving the mother from feeling bad and they don't like making females feel bad. Men also know that real women love having babies and need saving from interrupting that. All babies in the womb are really cute and they have heartbeats and feel pain as well which is unfair to them. If a maternal dies its punishment by god and nothing to do with us. It just goes on, and on and on.
Screw facts, screw costs, screw pain and suffering, nobody understands this like we kindly Christian jackasses.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
Funny thing, except not so funny: I've seen White Supremacists posting messages, who are upset because states banning abortion means more People of Color for America. Not here, of course, but in other forums with antisemitism and racism rampant.
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,279 Likes: 351
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,279 Likes: 351 |
C'mon ladies...just do your nine and pop it. You can always leave it at a fire station.
- Amy "Coat hanger" Barrett
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,279 Likes: 351
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,279 Likes: 351 |
Its a 'feelgood' thing with many of the banning folks. Babies are cute, especially the new ones. Stopping people from killing them is kindly and makes them feel a lot better. . First of all, babies are born; fetuses are not. Killing a baby is murder and against the law. What's the difference between a fetus and a baby? Babies exist outside of the womb; fetuses cannot.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,991 Likes: 128 |
First of all, babies are born; fetuses are not. Killing a baby is murder and against the law.
What's the difference between a fetus and a baby? Babies exist outside of the womb; fetuses cannot. The unborn are not U.S. citizens and as such the Constitution grants them no rights.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,279 Likes: 351
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,279 Likes: 351 |
The unborn are not U.S. citizens and as such the Constitution grants them no rights. Kinda like the founding fathers' view of women and black humans who were actually born.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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