Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Pence vows to fight subpoena all the way to Supreme Court.

Pence vows to fight subpoena all the way to Supreme Court. (CHB) "His strong reluctance raises questions: Is he trying to protect criminal activity by Donald Trump or himself?"

My answer is: Both. He has the insane idea that he might still run for President, despite it being an obviously forlorn endeavor. Trumpists will not support him, and no one else trusts him - except radical evangelicals. At the same time, he was up to his eyeballs in obstruction during the Trump presidency, and he knows if inquiries go beyond "why didn't you get in the car?" He's toast.

But, as the article notes: "Former Vice President Mike Pence said Wednesday that he will challenge a subpoena by the special counsel overseeing Trump investigations to compel his testimony before a grand jury — pursuing it to the Supreme Court if necessary. ...
“Let me first be clear: I’m going to fight the Biden DOJ subpoena for me to appear before the grand jury because I believe it’s unconstitutional and it’s unprecedented,” Pence told reporters in Iowa, the state that will hold the first contest of the 2024 nominating sequence.

“Never before in American history has a vice president been summoned to appear in court to testify against the president with whom they serve,” he said."

First, it is an obvious delay tactic. It is neither unconstitutional, nor unprecedented. In fact, Aaron Burr was tried for treason - by his former boss - so there is that. Moreover, it is obvious that there is nothing about the "Speech and debate" clause that would implicate his actions as Vice President. He just wants to avoid pleading the Fifth when questioned.

Pence is a sleaze of the first order.

If he believed the Constitution is the foundation of our Democracy, he would have voluntarily come forward, with anything which might be construed by any reasonable person as an assault on the Constitution and our Democracy, and testified of his concerns. That he has refused to come forward is a testament to his allegiance to himself, God, and his party before the Constitution.

I think you rather succinctly summed it up.

Pretty sure Pero's polls will show that will never happen.

You’re absolutely correct Rick. Pence is at 6% for the GOP nomination. At least that is in 3rd place. Ahead of Haley who is at 4%.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...blican_presidential_nomination-7548.html

Pence should have stayed as Indiana’s governors instead of accepting Trump’s offer to be his VP. That tenue tarnished him beyond and possible political career. All Pence is good for is writing books nowadays. Pence was a rising star within the GOP prior to becoming Trump’s VP. He blew his future political career by accepting the VP slot.

You have a high opinion of Pence.

I see him as an inauthentic, dull speaker, of limited intelligence, and a religious zealot. His appeal is mostly to the extreme religious folks. To improve his rankings and appeal , all he has to do is say white folks are the bomb a la Steve King.

Note that all Republicans who are running and will run will have to appeal to the bigotry of the Republican base to overcome Trump's obvious bigotry. It is the sole reason Trump has control of THE BASE. Republicans know it but fear the blowback from independents (your fav).

What a world, where Republicans are forced to be dishonest because THE BASE will disown them. Kewl.

That is a Republican Party problem. Not mine. I don’t worry about or fret over things I have no control over or can’t help or do anything about. As for Pence, Republicans did see him when he was governor of Indiana as a rising star. Note my use of the word Republicans in this post and GOP in the previous one. Pence was a very popular governor of Indiana, the people who lived in Indiana loved him. Many more high-profile republicans turned Trump down when it came to his VP offer. Pence accepting was a big surprise to many political pundits. Pence was Trump’s fifth or sixth choice. I don’t think many Republicans thought Trump would win in 2016 to include Trump himself. I think Trump wanted to use the Republican nomination for a higher contract from TV and higher ratings for his reality TV show. I never watched his show, I don’t even know what it was about. I don’t care for reality TV at all preferring historical, biography and sci-fi.

I think what Democrats think of Pence is irrelevant. They’re not going to vote for him or for any republican candidate even if that candidate was mother Terresa. That’s just the way it is. Same for Republican not voting for any democrat. For me, it’s all about what independents think, especially since they make up 40% of the electorate today as the two major party’s bases continue to shrink. Independents have risen from 30% in 2006 up to 42% if Gallup and pew research are to be believed.

What do I think of Pence? I placed him in the has been, irrelevant category, his political career is done. He’s basically a non-entity to me.

One only has to look at what was going on behind the scenes at FOX to understand the Republicans' fear. They were well aware that they were spreading blatantly false nutjob voting conspiracy gibberish, but they were afraid of losing "market share" to nuttier outlets like NutsMax and OneAssholeNews. If they couldn't lie to their consumers, no one would watch them.

The same dynamic infests the GOP. They can no longer field a relatively rational candidate like Romney or McCain (even though both were abysmal in my eyes) because they are afraid of losing the "deplorables". They've been running on lies, dystopian visions, and corruption for so long, they don't recognize reason any more.

Consider, Trump and DeSantis are the top candidates right now. Liz Cheney, about as conservative as anyone in the party, can't get elected as a Republican. Nikki Haley is considered "a leader" like McCarthy because they are willing to prostitute themselves to the base to get elected. It is ridiculous.

Back on the topic, though, Pence's strategy to delay his testimony as long as possible is going to hurt him and change the legal landscape, not just the election process. It is baseless, it is corrupt, it is self-serving, and it is incredibly dishonest. Hopefully, the courts will give it the shrift it deserves and rule quickly. It could be over in 6 months.

Failing his "legal" challenges, he will stand on the 5th. He is not just tangentially involved in the coup; he is the primary tool necessary for a possible successful coup. I think he will therefore apply a self incrimination defense in order to not answer any questions, and especially those which would implicate Trump as alleged de facto leader of the coup.

There is a whole quantum level of dishonesty among a large group of Republicans when Democracy is on the line.

Apparently WSJ editors agree with my conclusion (he will provide no useful testimony) but for different reasons they believe he should not have been issued a subpoena. While he may not produce the glue between Trump and the conspiracy plot, I believe every Republican involved should be on record, exposing their lack of Democratic patriotism, and adherence to a cult figure.

I don't get it. The Republican Party put on an insurrection which failed and only a handful of people apparently cares. If it doesn't have the aroma of the death of Democracy, a lot of folks need a nasal rinse.